Line Peteri: I Can Survive Anything: Cancer, Career, and Cutting the Bullshit with Line Peteri

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I am very honest and I'm very direct. I'm very Danish with everything that comes with that. So I don't really filter things. I think there's a lot of fake things going on. First of all, people are saying a lot what they think is a popular opinion. They keep being repetitive. Nothing new or innovative. A lot of people are afraid of actually saying something that cut to the noise. I was sitting in a panel discussion yesterday and one of them girls was saying, "You know what? I'm sick and tired of panels where we always just have to sit and push our companies. they would just do

something that is honest and I was like yes there's no [ __ ] but I realized that one of the things I've not been good at was being political for make sure that other leaders other stakeholders in the company works well with you it's not enough that your team like you and you like your team if nobody else likes you it doesn't matter cuz nobody's going to help your team nobody's going to communicate with you nobody's going to make it easier I can survive cancer I can survive anything even when I meet an [ __ ] sitting in front of me I would just sit

and you know be there physically ally and I just think you could just [ __ ] off. I feel that's very little thing that can really throw me off my game at this point. I am very appreciative for be alive and I wake up and obviously even if something sucks, you know, this tool will pass. Welcome to the I Gaming Leader podcast. I'm your host, Leo Judkins, founder of I Gaming Leader Mastermind. And on this show, I sit down with some of the most inspirational and forwardthinking leaders in our industry, diving into the real challenges, high stakes decisions, lessons that shape our industry. If you're

a VP, director, or an executive in I gaming, this podcast is built for you. Before we dive in, a quick thank you to our sponsor, Sumsub, the full cycle verification platform trusted by top i gaming operators worldwide. Sumsub helps onboard players quickly, stay compliant, and prevent fraud, all without slowing growth. More information in the description. Hey everybody, welcome to the i Gaming Leader podcast. My guest today has built brands, scaled teams, made massive decisions across tech, fashion, eye gaming, financial trading, but she's been reduced to her appearance, her relationship, her illness, and every single time she has refused to let that be her story. She's

a cancer survivor competing in high rocks on just 60% lung capacity and one of the most direct, no [ __ ] leaders I've ever met. Lena, welcome to the eye game leader. super excited to talk to you today. >> Thank you so much and thank you. Oh my god, you've really been researching me. I really appreciate that. Like, you know, most people I have to explain all these things to. I feel like now everything has been said. Very nice to be here with you, >> Lena. I uh I really remember the first time we met. We'd been talking on LinkedIn for a while before that

in the comments and stuff. And it was at the boxing session, right? I was stood there. We're we, you know, like hitting the bags. We're all ugly, sweaty, working out. I hear you say something about fake [ __ ] that goes on in the industry on LinkedIn and how you hate it and how it was time for some authenticity. I so love that and I think that moment for me really describes all of you, right? Like how you approach just being you. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? I know it's a broad topic, but I'd love to kind of hear what

you what your thoughts are on. So I first of all when I I am very honest and I'm very direct like you know I'm I'm very Danish with everything that comes with that. So I don't really filter things. I've been told multiple times by my British peers. I live in London so people are not I would say that happy with me being that direct. What you asking about? You wanted to know what I why I think it's [ __ ] I think there's a lot of fake things going on. First of all people are saying a lot what they think is a popular opinion. Uh

they keep basically being repetitive. nothing new or innovative are being shared. And I think some people obviously are doing it because they hope they're going to get LinkedIn engagement, but basically just repeating something they think works for somebody else. And somebody is just saying something to try to be relevant. For me, it has exactly the opposite. I cannot tell you how many people I've unfollowed because of that. So if anybody's watching this and wondering why I'm never liking their post, that's probably the reason. Sorry guys, you feel free to unfollow me as well. But I think that's it. Like you know a lot of people

are afraid of actually saying something that cut to the noise. I I was I was sitting in a panel discussion yesterday and actually one of the other girls was saying you know what I'm sick and tired of panels where we always just have to sit and push our companies. Then we just do something that is honest and I was like yes there's no [ __ ] So, so I think that is the thing like you know I feel that people think that to sell something today you have to be like very like like a forgot duck like you know but and I for me it's

exactly the opposite if somebody is like in you you're smart you don't have to sit and say the brand all the time we going to look at your profile we look at what you're doing you know this if you every time we saw you you are having a a sign in your forehead saying the brand we were like that's just so I'm not allowed to swear like that's just weird Lena, I loved it because that's that's everything you stand for. I actually I saw you some post I saw some guy posting something I think last week or something about how women all dress up to

get attention. I saw your comment on it and that was so good where you just went look I don't know what you're on about but it's you I think you just have such a good way of like not I don't know how to describe it just not not playing the the PR game you know and and just being like this is what you this is what you get and this is what you see and like one of the big things that I I often think about with you is that like you've been reduced to things over over years right like I said in the intro

the things that you've associated with your appearance illness which you'll talk about a little bit more, but but tell me a little bit more about those assumptions, Lena. Like which ones were for you maybe the hardest to shake and yeah, how's that affected you? >> I think the first one where I really realized that people had opinion was me earlier and I actually shared that story not long time ago. So when I was younger, I started one of the first gadget magazine in Denmark, which I think was kind of accomplishment. I to because I had absolutely no money. I also host on a gat show

in Denmark to advertise for the magazine. This is why mid20s. But then I started dating a guy who was became famous really really quickly. And for some reason everybody just identified me with him. I got hacked. I got harassed. People were saying the only reason I was successful was because I was with him. Although I have had a career since I was what 17 years old. And everybody who knows me know I've always had at least two jobs. The fact that I suddenly got diminished because I was with him was such a big shock. I didn't even consider like you know I I've never been

one of those pretty girls who you know which I thought was just and again there's nothing wrong with that like you know this is just but I always been a nerd. I've been like one of those who opens a computer and look inside and look at the motherboard, look at everything, get fried one also because I tried a bit too much. But because I'm such a nerd, I never even considered that people would be be put me in a in in a box and say, "Oh, she's only successful because he's dating this guy." It was such a big shock for me for it. And I

I remember I was actually we didn't break up because of that. But ultimately, it did have a big strain on the relationship that I didn't want to be known as his girlfriend. If anything, he should be known as Michael my boyfriend. Like, you know, I was did the first gadget magazine like, you know, but yeah, that's but unfortunately that's not how the world is. And since then, I've been super mindful about how people are seeing me. I know that some people will say because again, I also I dress exactly like I want and I know there are some people who think that can be too

much or too little. And back to the comment that you mentioned that you saw I did last week, that guy I think removed me from LinkedIn because of it. He didn't reply. This is the thing like you know I am sick and tired being told that you know a woman who can do this have to look in a certain way. You know what? If I want to run around in an orange dress and being a big colorful, you know, that that is my provocative and I feel it's such a weird thing that we keep telling not just women but everybody to be this person, you

know, this career, you need to fit into this box. You have to make yourself to this type of person, you know, and and I feel is that for me that is actually [ __ ] We we're talking about mental health and in the same time we try to limit people to become something they're not even. It actually goes to that whole PR perception thing as well, right? The thing you were talking about when you were on stage yesterday or that panel where you're saying, "Oh, we got to promote our business and we that you got to people feel that they always have to show themselves

from a specific side like the best side or they always feel that they have to fit in this specific box or and all of that is nonsense, right? You just do you." So tell me a little bit more about what you said there earlier where you said I'm actually really mindful about what I look like or >> but I know people have like perception of me when they meet me like you know because particularly if I come in like you know in an overly in a dress where they maybe feel like showing a bit too much skin and instantly I'm put into a box that

I'm maybe not smart enough or maybe not that. And the thing is I consider myself to be a hardcore nerd like you know I'm old east by play counter strike for many years. I'm one of those people who got an MP5 just because it was my favorite weapon in in Counter Strike. So I consider myself to be one of those people, you know, who if I need a skill like if I learn to need to to do development like you know code ASP, GSP back in the days, but of course when you then come all dressed up like for instance I did my MBA some

years back this was during the lockdown I always had this thing since I was sick that I never want to look at a tired or sick person in the mirror. So during all these sessions, I came with like a bright lipstick and I even had a wardrobe. I called my lockdown wardrobe with basically a running short but a really cute top. So in the meetings I look glamorous and considering that I always had my foot into fashion. I felt that I had to be the representative to that as well. And I be honest when I joined this is one of the best business schools in

UK with my broken Danish accent. And I'm sitting there and you can see that this is a lot of academic people and they think I'm stupid as [ __ ] They don't even hide the fact they thought I was stupid. I could come into one of the meetings and I would say something and everybody would just be quiet and then like 30 seconds they would just continue like they didn't hear me like I was just invisible. I actually started the hash invisiblewoman after that cuz I realized there is something and then I remember I was like should I try to make myself fit into this? Should

I try to change myself? And I you know what I just got more bright lipstick. I got even better more ruffles. So I always wish when I came into a room that I could come in and being all dark and mysterical and you know almost restrain myself a little bit. And I tried. It's so funny. I actually just wrote a post that I'm publishing tomorrow. And I always thought like you know what if I cut this you know of myself and this of myself then ultimately I'm going to be what people expect me to be and it will fit in. But I also realized that

I will be so grossly unhappy, you know, because I am just not that cute little thing sitting on the shelf and looking in a certain way. I need to be loud. I need to form a passion. And yes, when I was younger, I was not confident as I am now. Like, you know, when I was younger, I I really like I would lie in my bed in the evening. I just hate the fact that I was that weirdo that couldn't fit in. And I there was moments where I was like, yeah, where I really thought like there's not room for for people like me in

the world. But then with age and maybe even with illness you I I learned you know what there's always somebody maybe there's not as a parent and maybe take a little bit more time there there and the rest if they're judging you for the way it's not really my problem. >> Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about illness and how that's affected you. So in for people that don't know you were diagnosed with incurable cancer in 2013 while building your career and raising a family. So tell us a little bit more about that. You know what did that do to you? How did it change

your perception? >> I got diagnosed just after my second child was born and in the beginning I was actually not to worry because it's a tyal cancer and everybody say tyal cancer is the good cancer. That's [ __ ] Do never ever say to anybody that any kind of is a good cancer. But that meant that I didn't think oh I'm going to have a surgery and that that's it. I then after almost a year they realized it's incurable because I become immune to the only no treatment. At this point I already had one surgery and one radioactive iodine treatment. For people who don't know

radio iodine is basically radiation that means that you cannot be around any vulnerable people for a given period of time which meant I had to be away from my children before and 6 weeks and I think most parent know how terrible it is to leave your that point two and a half year old and six six month old baby and not knowing what's going to happen. So I wish I would say I was like super dignified when this happened. I was not I was very self-pity. I have absolutely no doubt like no understanding of why my husband is still with me. I was like yelling

and screaming. Then I went into depression and was lying in my bed just feeling really really sorry for myself because when you hear something like incurable, it stops your work. There's no way you can mentally prepare for something like that. But but the thing is my kids is very good. Like I think they realized something was going on and they ended up lying with me in bed and they didn't ask me for anything. They didn't they just lying there and I I don't even I think I was in bed for two or three weeks but this time is very blurry like maybe it was more

maybe it was less and but I also remember I was thinking if I'm going to go out it's not like lying in the bed and you know you know almost having you know you know cramp because you've been lying in bed for such a long time and I realized I'm going to try to take some control back and I start I decided I'm going to start exercising it didn't it's not like I start doing long the first my first run was like 7 minutes no even to buy buy the right equipment like buy the right shoes like I had no idea like I went into

like one of those supermarkets that also sell clothes so I didn't even went to like a f cuz I had no idea where to start and yeah I started running I very slow I nothing amazing and then it slowly became longer and longer until I did my first half marathon uh and then because I'm idiot and overdo things I lost the ligament in my ankles I needed double ankle surgery for that oh my this is really just showing that sometimes I really need to step up and and think a little bit what I'm doing. But yeah, but the good thing about that was that was

exactly what inspired me to become a shareholder and start a shoe company with comfortable high shoes. >> So let's talk about that Lena because I truly believe that our mess becomes our message. I think sometimes the hardships that we have to go through that we fight through they make us so much stronger. They become our teachers, right? And they also create the fuel that we need to create the behavior change that we want in our lives to become a different person. So that's where I wanted to go with you next. Like what is it? I mean you already said when you're somewhere and you go

on camera you don't want to look tired or sick. That's one of the things you said, right? I'm assuming that's coming direct from that. So I'd love to hear how has it changed you? How has it been a teacher for you going through incurable cancer? >> I'm really mindful that not everybody has a journey like me. So I don't want to say that cancer was is a good thing in any way because it was not. But I think for me exactly as you said it did become you know where you have to make a really strong decision in what what do what kind of control

do you want in your life. It had been eye opening not just to my body and what I can do like you know what kind of life I want but also my mental health like you know I was struggling a lot before I got diagnosed for all kind of reasons like you know I never been one of those people who were very much in contact with myself. I I had very big chips on my shoulder. Like maybe because of some of the things about fitting in. But since then I begin to realize I can survive cancer. I can survive anything. Even when I meet an

[ __ ] sitting in front of me, I would just sit and you know be there physically and I would just think you know what I survived cancer. He could just [ __ ] off. Like obviously I'm not saying it. I probably would. Now everybody afterwards will think I did she do that to me. So I think I feel there's very little thing that can really throw me off my game at this point because of course I can have a bad day but ultimately like you know I was I was talking with a friend the other day who was going through a rough time that

was like a really good mood and I said to him I'm so sorry but it's one of the side effects of surviving cancer is that I am very appreciative for be alive and I wake up and obviously even if something sucks you know doesn't mean that it you know this too will pass which I really believe is is something my husband always say and I really believe that anything will also pass and I think that is the the thing it really taught me. >> I bet gives you such a different outlook on the challenges that you go through because they're all insignificant in comparison to

what you've already faced. Right. So, so looking at your career then you've moved a lot different companies, different industries, different continents. We've talked about it beforehand. You're going from Rio to the other side back to Rio. What is that for you? Is that ambition, restlessness or something else? And what have you learned about yourself from from each of those moves? >> So I am a very passiondriven person and I was actually thinking about because I left such an amazing job, paid me an amazing salary and at that point my boss even said to me, can you just work a bit slower because you make everybody

feel really bad about themselves and I could have stayed in that role and had an amazing salary was 100% remote. But that's the thing like you know I am extremely passion driven as a person and if you look at my career there is you can see what kind of interest have been following me through my life. So back back in the days I'm I'm a tech person. I absolutely love tech. So although I'm educated fashion designer so that you can see the fashion came in really quickly that this is not an industry I want to work directly in but maybe invest in and that's why

I shoe company but tech has always been this strong like connecting connecting between everything I've done. I begin to play poker after some time and I realized okay poker is amazing and I got opportunity to work with poker and then while I was working with poker I realized and I got the opportunity to do my MBA and in my one of my projects I decided to do a blockchain sustainable blockchain which we incorporate into the shoe company but also I realized I want to know much more about this I want to do a doctorate in you know one day you know that that's the only

binary title I I think suits me would be doctor all the other things I don't understand I accept that but I'm too old to for that but for me to understand proper I need to not just know it from a theoretically point of view I need to work with it so I wanted to work in fintech so that's why I'm working in fintech now and in all fairness I wouldn't be surprised in 5 10 years I work in live tech on blockchain which is ultimately where I want to go even if it looks like I'm just like you know it is very much what my

passion and where I feel that I can put most into at a given time >> it's like Steve Jobs said you connect the dots looking backwards and I think that's often true when you follow your passion. So when you I mean through through all those transitions in those different places, different industries, different companies, different jobs, what's maybe the hardest decision that you had to make as a leader and looking back do you think you got it right? >> No, I don't think I but this is the thing like I always joke about I hope that when I grow up I will get it right and

considering I'm almost 50 like you know begin to believe it's not going to happen. But I know I don't think by all means that I've done this perfect. I am a super flawed human for it. But one of the things that is very important for me is to be able to protect my team. I know a lot of people a lot of leaders is very driven by ambitions for the company. But for me it's really about growing the people that I'm working with. I when I hire people I always say like one day you will be able to you know replace me. And I really

truly believe that and I'm really happy that if you actually if you go back now and see what companies have been in, you would actually see that have happened. And that for me I feel is one of my strongest assets as a leader and as a human that I give people that ambition but also confidence to believe in their own growth. And let's be honest people who believe in themselves they can rock the you know you know everything and I think when I've been in situations where I could not protect my team there was in a situation where I had one team I took over

another department and two people left but I I was not allowed to hire two new people. So my existing team had to take that extra job and they already know my opinion grossly underpaid. I and I couldn't because in the end I knew like I I would never have to ask them to work late because if they so thought I was online they will come on but I felt so guilty that they did that and then ultimately I had to leave that company and I told the new guy the particular two people because one of them should have actually taken that job. If you don't

promote them I'm going to take them with me. I will give you three months and he didn't promote them. I took them with me to the new company when my when I could. >> And did you leave that company on principal questions like the things that were against your value? Was that it because of the team or >> 100% and I had a very good talk with HR and funny enough I was the only one HR a took out for goodbye goodbye lunch as well. I think she respected that a lot like you know it's a very big company and and of course it's easy

to only think about yourself and a lot of people does that and I I'm not blaming people for doing that because there have been situations where I've left companies and would have no plans and my husband would look at me like again why did you do this to yourself but the thing is I believe that if the more you you begin to compromise your values the less they become and ultimately values have become so small that you don't even recognize them anymore and I just decided in my life. That's not how I going to be. I'm I'm very scrappy. Worst case, I move out in

my holiday home. I have like a static caravan and then I rent out my house. I will always find a way. >> Well, there's two things to that, Lena, though. Like, one is a lot of people are not really clear on what their values actually are. They kind of know it's uh they couldn't articulate it. And I think the second thing why you're also right is that they they make them smaller, right? Because they're maybe not clear on them or they compromise on it because they feel they have to. Maybe because of golden handcuffs or whatever it is. So let's uh let's turn that into

a lesson for anybody that's maybe not clear on their values or feels that they're diminishing or somebody that feels that they have to got to compromise on their values. What would your advice be to them? >> I think the whole question is why do you do things? Understand that you have responsibility. Uh you know everything is about what kind of life you want. As you know, I exercise a lot and exercise I mean investment into my health is investment into be a better person and hopefully stay around for my children and everything I do is for my children. What kind of role model do I

want to be? Like do I want to be somebody where I can go back to my children and say you know what I did everything in my power it didn't work out but I did everything to do it right. Now I speak a lot with them about this as well. So I think you know I don't think my way is the only way. Of course we're all different. You know, everybody have to decide for themselves and I would never ever judge anybody for taking other decisions. But ultimately, if you lie in the bed in the night and you think, you know what, I hate my

job or I hate my life. You need to ask yourself, you know, is it worth it? Is it worth for you to cut away part of yourself to stay in that role or is it okay to have six 12 months where you really just have to be scrappy and do whatever to take all kind of weird roles that you never thought that you were going to take? But in my opinion, no job is a bad job. And believe me, I've done a lot of weird jobs and I'm proud of myself that I've always been able to take care of myself. And I think that is

the thing like you know I don't care about titles. You know what I have been cleaning when I was younger. You know what that's absolutely fine. So I think that's the thing. Can you live with it yourself and if that's how you see it keep going but if you don't ask yourself why to begin to write it down. >> Great advice. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about team. You mentioned just now that team is uh far more important to you than like the the business itself. I mean, you've operated in many different industries where rules constantly change, right? Regulation, licensing, market access, very

similar to how how I gaming operates as a whole. But how do you like what is your approach? How do you lead a team when you genuinely don't know what's coming next and what do you do when you get it wrong? >> We have a situation right now in Brazil, exactly when we were there. And I think the uncertainty obviously everybody's worried like would this impact their job? Would they impact anything? And I get that. I feel clear communication is one of the most important thing like you know at least don't ignore or diminish people's feelings about this make sure that they know they can

always come to you and talk and as soon as you know something communicate it I think the problem is if you feel like you know that your leadership is not taking care of you but if you feel that they're protecting you you will be much more calm so for me communication very important no no overcommunication in this case although I do like to communicate a lot but to make sure that they Please know that as soon as something is changing, they will be the first to know. >> Clear communication. Don't overcommunicate. Make sure you communicate quickly and concise. Be concise and clear about it. Love

it. Great advice. You've worked in a lot of different um with a lot of different leaders. And so I want to talk a little bit about the gap that you perhaps notice. There's different leaders in different companies of course, but what's the biggest gap that you see between like what leaders say about how they lead and what they actually do? >> Oh, this is the interesting one. So I think with in our industry one of the strongest things about game gaming is that we have no like everybody you don't people don't need to commit with the degree. If you shown that you are hardworking and

a grinder you commit which is a really good thing. It means it's accessible and very inclusive for everybody. The problem is although a lot of people think that studying is just was [ __ ] You actually do you know learn tools because I always thought before I I studied that I was a great leader because I'm always somebody who's very empathic but I realized that one of the things I've not been good at not two things that have not been good enough was one being political and as soon as people say political I mean like for inance make sure that other leaders other stakeholders in

the company works well with you. It's not enough that you your team like you and you like your team but if nobody else likes you it doesn't matter because nobody is going to help your team nobody's going to communicate your team nobody's going to make it easier and the other thing protect your team fiercely you are not there to be the best friend of your team which I thought was actually the thing in the beginning you need to take the fight with HR when there is a salary block and your team have not gotten anything for a year deadlines are absolutely unreasonable you're the one

who have to have the gut to go up to maybe the management and say hey guys this is not okay this is not fair and I feel a lot of people don't have that because they are so they think about their own position so they don't take that fight for the team so I I either see these very friendly leaders who are very you know friendly with the team but don't take that fight or I'm not really understanding how to work with other stakeholders and I think that is some of the tools that you can learn that that I feel people are missing right now

>> then when we get to senior leadership I'd see some other things that then starts cropping up. You know, people that have been in the industry for 10, 15, 20 years, quickly grown throughout their careers because it's super accessible like you said, right? They maybe started there at whatever 23 just like you and me and they grow through and they come up to sea level. Suddenly other problems start happening. So you kind of figure maybe you figured out it's not you shouldn't just be a nice guy because everybody's your mates are now your team. And what are the gaps that you see there? Is there

anything that you notice there kind of at sea level where there's a gap between what people say and what they do as leaders? >> This is a little bit maybe what the [ __ ] I mentioned on LinkedIn in the beginning, isn't it? Like you know and and I think a lot of people is let's just talk about you know about being upbe everybody's saying they want to do it but really nobody's is doing it. They're doing like the bare minimum. I feel a lot of people are thinking more about how they're looking but actually putting actions into the words. I remember I was in

a big company where we at one point and we've been talking about oh my god we've been hammering with diaper and being inclusive for years and then they present this whole new senior leadership and there was four guys and a woman and they all made this presentation of themselves all four guys like yeah I have this amazing wife you're taking care of the kids blah blah and then the one woman yeah I have no kids and we after we were like okay so you literally just told us like the only way that you can be you know senior woman in this company is if you

didn't have any No. Oh, you should have found yourself, you know, a wife who could take care of the kids. One of those two. And I feel there's so much of this where people are saying they want to do it. I feel that maybe lost a little bit touch with what's going on. And I think that's what maybe what you mentioned as well. So instead of actually like the same thing all these satisfaction surveys that comes out, I'm sorry, but this is for me. I don't like to put something, but this is the most American like stupid thing. But all these surveys and you've been

going and we promise we're going to do something and like I have filled in so many of these surveys in my life and I am extremely comprehensive in my feedback. I never just say we give the five points or three points or one points. I always really really I cannot remember any time in my life and I'm almost 50 where I felt that anybody have given a [ __ ] about what I have given a feedback or where I have seen this been implemented in any way and it's like okay we want teams to be think that we we care about what you the feedback

but it's just a way to make us think that we we have a voice so I feel like out of touch with the with the personnel too little action and too much love and BS. >> I love the fact that you're calling out um diversity, you know, inclusion. I think it's such a I think it's such a good point because in many areas that are kind of popular from a PR perspective, right, there like the current trend to talk about, it gets talked about a lot and then there's very little action or the action that's taken is like you said is the opposite of what

should be done or actually confirms the bias from before. So how do you feel people could >> No, but I spend who who who made this whole diet initiative which I think is a really good idea. However, the only people who participate in the panels and the only one who really listen to it is people who already agree. It's already people who think yes we should have dive the ones who actually should and last time at at eyes actually called it out and I was like yelling because the problem was they gave people headsets should the people who just passed by would not have any

idea what we were talking about on it. So we didn't get any like just and I was like trying to yell yell them up and say guys like this this is the one we want more guys to actually come and join us. We want senior leaders to come and sit here and I don't know if I scared them away some people stayed for like two minutes and then they were got off again you know maybe just take a photo hey I I I sat in on a panel and then I left but this is the thing like we keep saying it and I I am

one of those people when I see and I and I scroll down and it's just white men and I have nothing against white man. My husband is a white man. my son is a half white man like you know I think they're great but but the thing is when you see like know 10 ps in a row and it's all white male and and I and I'd address it then a guy would say oh but why you know it should be about you know the skills and not the not the the gender and I agree on that but did you invite just one woman to

the table to discuss it with her before you dismissed her? This is not a question about me not liking white men. This is the question about did you give the other person a chance to actually say something before you said oh there's no women who competent enough to be here you know or any of color this is why I always say they invite me because I'm getting three of the d boxes I get like color little okay little person I don't know how to say that my and and a woman as well oh I almost forgot a woman sorry >> yeah I think it's such

a good point we see it everywhere right how do we close that gap you think le I mean the obvious answer is and I don't want you to give the obvious answer because we were talking about what people say they do and what they do the closing the gap is actually just doing what you say obviously but how like how can we you know for somebody maybe listening that thinks so like yeah it should just be about skills and whatever I don't care what she says how do we close that gap but first of all it has to be podcast like yours because if I

was sitting here in a d podcast we both know that the only people who going to listen to this will be people who already agreeing that so so this is already a good first time. But but this is the thing. I think people have to understand it's not a war against it's basically just an opportunity to listen. I I had a guy coming to me the other time and he said to me, "Yeah, and he wanted to sell me some media buying on influencer." And then he says to me, "Yeah, because young people they know these things much better." And I had to stop him

and say, "Honestly, did you just did you just, you know, use age against me?" Yeah, but they're not really like I think and I said to him, "Okay, I always feel sorry for you that you would say this to me. Like I probably been first of all I've been online obviously since you know web one two and now three and on top of that I super nerd and you're telling me that you're going to cheat me how to and then he didn't even know how to get his QR code on telegram and I was like I was so and he got really nervous I rattled

him quite a lot but but this is these these um presumption that we have as soon as we said die we think okay now it's like it's a woman who hate men they want to burn their bra and want to yell you know and throw things at So all these presumptions that there is around around gender and around thing that has to be I think first of all this is really important is so I never want to win a female award. I've been asked many times if I want to participate in female and and I have said no I if you if you nominate me

for a leaders award that's great but I don't I don't want to be nominated for a female leaders award and simply for the fact that I think that segregation makes it harder it doesn't mean that I don't believe we should support women and support people of color but I think when we have the segregation we actually polarize and make it even hard harder to be heard and let's be honest if I were going for one of those vote I I wouldn't like to you know just be with with one gender would want raised and I think that is a start to do it. Every time

I see these things I get a little bit I know why they're doing it but I think it's a huge disfavor for the conversation because guys who sit there even if they say they like it on LinkedIn they think why why why do we need like either for best leader best entrepreneur best whatever it shouldn't be gender specific in my opinion. >> No makes a lot of sense. I want to ask you um one last question. You I love I love what we talked about uh so far and I want to go back to what you were saying halfway through about you sitting there people

going quiet after you've said something you having doubted yourself for a long time in the beginning of your career on whether or not you should have changed that and realizing that you would have been really unhappy if you would have done that. I want you to take me back to that period in your life. If you would go back there to that time when you were perhaps just starting out and you were having those doubts in your mind about if you should be compromising on your behavior being Lena the outspoken fighter that's turned up here today. What would you tell her in that moment of

doubt? >> That's actually a really heavy one like you know because as I said it was even if I'm very confident today I was very very good at my career that time but I was so lonely in my 20ies that you cannot even imagine. I remember one guy actually said to me at one point, "But nobody want career woman this age. Maybe in your 30s." And I was like, "Oh, okay. I would just sit here and drop myself down over in the corner." Then I I would never give such a snazzy comeback by the way. I would just have been like, "Okay." So if I

if I met and actually when I meet women like myself, so I've been mentoring at whole business school. So I meet young women in the in the in the beginning of the 20s now. And I would tell them to not give a [ __ ] I would say, you know what? Yes, maybe there will be people to tell you that things have to be in a certain way now and you know what for what is worse this is why we are social media then we can see that all of these guys are still stuck where because they have been spending all the energy to conforming

and look at us now we can be divas and queens later and that's what I was showing and that's actually what I'm trying to also come across on LinkedIn what I'm trying to tell you know I had some women who was like very about if you do business you have to wear a suit you always have to wear a suit you have to have to look a certain way you have to become a little bit more grayish. You have to be a little bit more this and that. I said, "No, no, no, no. That's absolutely wrong." Like, if you want to blend in with the

furniture, yes, that's what you can do. But you know what? Show you show yourself. So, I would just be that loud person coming back to myself and say, you know what, honestly, and also when you get older and get more money, you can just do it. You get the freedom that you want. You know, I'm not saying money give you happiness. It does give a bit of freedom later on. Uh, I don't know if it would be a good advice, though. Maybe it just made myself more confused. I'm not sure. >> I think it's great advice because that is the thing, isn't it? You know, if

you're just in the middle and you're just you're just compromising and you're trying to satisfy everybody, the only person that you're not satisfying is yourself. And I think it's better to be polarizing. People will hate you and people will love you and that's that's fine. That's that's the way it should be. So, u Lena, it's been great having you on the podcast. Thank you so much for sharing your story. >> Thank you so much. As I say, I actually tapped into a I almost feel a little bit sweaty now, like you know, so I feel like this has been a very heated and passionate conversation. So, thank

you so much, Leo. Thank you. >> Thank you for listening to the i Gaming Leader podcast. If you're a VP, a director, founder, or an executive, and I gaming, making the biggest decisions alone. That's exactly what I've built I Gaming Leader Mastermind for. small inner circles of vetted senior executives, weekly hot seats, and accountability from people who understand the effects of the decisions that you need to make. Find out more and apply at i gamingleer.com. And a final thanks to our sponsor, Sumsup, the full cycle verification platform for i gaming operators. Player onboarding, AML, fraudrevention, all in one place. More at sumsup.com/gambling. See you next

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