Ramiro Atucha: Why Most Founders Are Wrong About Who Should Lead Their Company

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It's always painful to realize that the company that you created grow as a baby that you put the hours the time that you're not the right person to continue to leave that company. I was a lot younger and I was a crazy Argentinian with the alphaore the de lee and showing gains. We needed an English guy in his 50s, not that crazy Argentinian in his 30s. As a CEO, the ultimate responsible is you. A bill is not paid. You cannot hide behind finance. Something gets delayed. There's an HR problem there. There's a problem with financing, funding, whatever. Imagine you're in a boat and all of

a sudden the captain says, "I have no clue where we are and how to get." People will start jumping out of the boat. If you talk to your wife, she'll support you, but she doesn't understand your industry. If you talk to your team, employees, managers, they'll panic and eventually it will backfire 100%. The feeling I have towards the end is that if it had been a proper job, I would have resigned, you know, long ago. I hate the word ego and I think that anything driven by ego is curse. Self-esteem is a lot better. You need to know, oh, you're really messed up here. Really

messed up. I still love me. You know that allows you to accept that you messed up. >> Welcome to the I Gaming Leader podcast. I'm your host, Leo Judkins, founder of I Gaming Leader Mastermind. And on this show, I sit down with some of the most inspirational and forwardthinking leaders in our industry, diving into the real challenges, highstakes decisions, lessons that shape our industry. If you're a VP, director, or an executive in I gaming, this podcast is built for you. Before we dive in, a quick thank you to our sponsor, Sumsub, the full cycle verification platform trusted by top i gaming operators worldwide. Sumsub helps

onboard players quickly, stay compliant, and prevent fraud, all without slowing growth. More information in the description. Welcome to the I Gaming Leader podcast. 6 months ago, my guest stepped down. A CEO of the company, co-founder, and spent 5 years building. Most founders fight to keep the chair. He stepped aside from two of them. A really sharp strategist, deeply respected across the industry and very humble family man first. He's also member of our I gaming leader mastermind. Romero, welcome to the podcast, mate. >> Thank you very much. Thrilled to be here and always enjoy having a chat with you in any context. So happy to be

here, >> mate. It's been so great meeting you from the very first time to our first time in Barcelona. I never forget how you saved us uh at that restaurant with all of our mastermind. Let's let's uh let's start off there. How was that? How was that to you? Our first in person meet up. >> That was fun because I was still not a member, but you invited me to be able to meet the team and understand a bit more what it was about. You had a pre-event I couldn't reach. So, I I got to the restaurant just to find out that there was a

problem with the reservation. Fortunately, it was an Argentinian restaurant. So I pulled up my Argentinian stripes and bonded with the guy and he was very helpful and very accommodating, but it was a full house and somehow we managed to fit a 15 people table or something like that. So was a great meal and yeah, I mean I'm glad I could help. >> Yeah, it was amazing. Thanks again for that because you were a lifesaver and it's great driving the taxi back with you as well was amazing. Just getting to know you a little bit more and this is this is really where I also found

out how much of a family man that you are. And so we'll dive into that a little bit because obviously for all of us in gaming and especially you now with your advisories a lot of travel balancing our family lives having moved over to Valencia recently with your entire family that all of that is tricky but I'd like to kind of start in July 2025 if that's all right the morning of the day you posted on LinkedIn that you were stepping down as Fibra CEO tell a little bit more about that. How was that process after having been part of that business for so long? It's

always painful, you know, to realize that your face at the company that you created, that you see grow as a baby, that you put the hours, the time, you know, to realize that you're not the right person to continue to leave that company. You know, it happened to me at Leander where when I invited my good friend Steven Matzel to lead, I had the feeling that I wasn't the right CEO at that time. So 2012 I believe and me and the other partner invited Steven to join as CEO and later on in 2019 me realizing that my time with the company wasn't the right one

right I mean years go by and expectations and everyone's career growth sometimes they grow align sometimes they grow in a different direction I wanted to go in a different direction with the company it wasn't shared with my partners you do the sensible thing of having the conversations, presenting alternatives, etc., but I wasn't willing to stay bitter about the direction that I wasn't comfortable with and I I didn't want to argue with the guys and they're good guys. I agree the transition over. I co-created Bibbra or Vira and with that I executed a lot of the things that I wanted to do with Leanda and and

after some time similar situation where there's a misalignment the majority shareholder and again it's always my spirit to be very mindful of those who trusted me to lead the project that invested in the project I'm very mindful of the transitions the transitions need to be very collaborative need to be very mindful and with a lot of consensus. Yeah, painful. But I always like to say that none of the best decisions I've made in my life I made. So, uh I mean I didn't choose to leave Leander. It was a context where I felt I couldn't continue in that capacity. So it's not that I was

kicked out, but it wasn't a context where I was comfortable continuing. So it wasn't a situation of my choosing. Similar with Bibra back then, but all those decisions ended up working as a positive thing. I always even say as a joke that not even my marriage I decided or and I don't know if I told you the story. No, >> it sounds silly, but I didn't know that these engagement rings meant a proposal. I didn't, you know, >> I I I didn't. So, I I I hand the rings to my wife and to me it was okay. We're wearing matching rings, you know, it goes

for real, you know, whatever. and she hands me an envelope and a letter written like months before that saying, you know, if you're reading this, it means you propose something very important to me and I'm too nervous and emotional to say yes I do. I'll be waiting for you at the end of the I said hell I'm getting married and and it was like you know remember this movie Six Sense at the end you know we'll find out what really happened and we all remember all the scenes that we didn't interpret the right way and it was all out there you know so I remember

all these movies with a guy going on the knees and of course I was proposing to get married how I think of that so I didn't decide on that I said weekly do you want to get married and okay and here I am 25 years later happily married but but I did not decide even on that so imagine with Leander or you >> oh my god that's crazy that's I love that story I can't believe I didn't know that either do you remember the moment you hit um post on LinkedIn in 2025 after with with var when you said when it became public knowledge how

was that in the moment you know leading up to it before you know it's obviously already clear in your head. You've had the discussions internally, but now it's going to go out to the world. How was that moment for you? >> Well, it was finally a relief because the moment of going out, you know, was the summary of lot of conversations and consensus with the partners and everything. Uh I mean that took a while. It took a while to agree on everything and to define that. So the world had been a bit out there. Some people already knew that I was transitioning from my position. But

at some point I did make it public and it was relieving because it was finally out there with an agreed statement and everything. It was very soothing in terms of um I felt I received a lot of good feedback, a lot of appreciation from the team even from the partners from people from the industry. I felt that the industry kind of embraced me in in in a very comforting way and I got all sorts of signs of support or offers to do other stuff. So it felt nice, you know. I mean in again it's always a painful process to leave your baby, you know, but

I I felt I was very nicely supported by by peers and friends from the industry and that it was definitely for the better. My life now is a lot better than when I had you know Vira thing or the Leanda thing on my shoulders. >> What are some of the biggest distances you feel in your day to day life from then to now? >> Well, the main thing is as a CEO the ultimate responsible is you. So a bill is not paid. You cannot hide behind finance. Something gets delayed. There's a problem. There's an HR problem. There's there's a problem with financing, funding, whatever, it's

you. At the end of the day, the person that needs to be available and show the face is you. So that makes your time allocation not ideal because you end up firefighting more than doing what you are best at. And what I enjoy doing is strategy, product development, business development, relationships, meeting with people, getting creative, what can we do with this, etc. And then you realize that you're barely dedicating, I don't know, 10 10% 15% of your time to that and the rest is firefighting, you know, and you end up doing the extra hours. But the feeling I have towards the end is that I

was doing that more out of responsibility than out of will. I mean if it had been a proper job I would have resigned you know long ago but there was people there that have invested that have come that had joined the company trusting me personally. So you cannot slam the door, you know, you need to be there until there's a consensus that you can step aside without leaving them hanging. And that was kind of the process, right? >> So I want to talk a little bit more about the 2012 thing that you mentioned with the bringing Steven in and you stepping aside as CEO and

becoming the COO. You didn't feel ready to that position yet. Like what how did that whole process go? What was going through your mind? How did you actually make the decision? Did you feel? Was there ego in the way at all? And if so, how did you overcome that? Talk a little bit more about that if you don't mind. >> Yeah, I I I hate the word ego. And I think that anything driven by ego is cursed. I like better self-esteem. Self-esteem is a lot better. You know, self-esteem allows you to do something that may not treat you right, but without compromising yourself. I always

I always like to joke my self-esteem is bulletproof. Nobody loves me more than myself. I adore myself. That doesn't mean I'm full of myself and I think I'm great. I always say that the relationship that you need to have yourself is the relationship that you have with your best friend. your best friend, you know, all the negatives of your best friend, but you still love him, you know, and with yourself, you need to know, I mean, oh yeah, I still love me, you know, that allows you to accept that you messed up. I think that we grew the company to a point where I felt

that a different leadership was needed because we started as a game studio and all of a sudden back in 2011 2012 we were becoming a platform business and we were in the process of the RFP with Poker Stars with Betson with some very large operators. I I was a lot younger and I was a crazy Argentinian with the alphaore the de leche and and and showing games. In my opinion, we needed an English guy in his 50s, not that crazy Argentinian in his 30s to back a platform business and especially if that person had uh a a platform background and that was Steven with GTS

with Playtech. So I always say that I don't think we would have won the RFP of Poker Stars or the deal with Petson without Steven coming in because him coming in meant a huge endorsement to a group of Argentinians based off Argentina, you know, traveling the world doing stuff. So I'm mindful of that. Steven is a person I always admired a lot. So I was happy to step aside as COO and all of a sudden we got BSON, we got Poker Stars, we got video slots. We always wore two hats, the operational hat and the BEV hat. I went back to operations to make sure

that we delivered and it was hard work and it was a different type of work but I think I added value from there and and once that got sorted it was coming out a bit on the business side on developing markets >> that must have been also such a contrast from the size of contracts that you had before versus them landing bit and poker stars and video slots right and that puts a whole new level of pressure on on business and on delivery right which is why you were overseeing that delivery. But what did that do to you and the organization? How did you make

sure that Yeah. that with such a massive opportunity, you also don't screw up and you actually deliver? >> Yeah. I mean, we had to mature, we had to grow the team, we had to embrace different processes. So, it was a great learning experience and a huge opportunity back then. And we all learned a lot and we grew a lot professionally and personally. I bet it's a more fresher. Hey, with Vibbra, I always say Vbra. You just said thyra before. >> When when when I was looking for the name, I tried to look for a name that had a meaning in three languages, Spanish, English, and

Portuguese. So in Spanish, it's Vibbra, but in English it's Vira, right? It's it's after vibration, good vibrations. So I always thought about good vibrations, good vibes. And the word means the same in Spanish, English, and Portuguese. But some people recognize it at Bibbra, some people as vibra. So when I'm talking in English, I normally say more vibbra than vibbra. >> Okay. So when you started with zebra, how was it then? Because one of the things you said earlier was that you realized in that CEO period as well that you kind of end up doing maybe 15 to 20% of the things that you really love

and the rest is firefighting because Musk said it really well is that you end up with all of the worst problems, right? because you are the only one that can deal with them and and certainly not what you started in business because you wanted to do the things that you love. But you had already realized that with the first one, right? And now you're going to do it again. What was your thinking behind that? Is it only after the second time now that you've got the consulting setup that you realize that this is what you want to do or what was your thinking there? >> No, I

mean with the first one I I felt I wasn't the right CEO for that phase. With the second one, I felt I was. So on the second case I wouldn't have given my co position to anyone you know I felt I was the right person to lead the charge etc. But again then you know years go by you know I I turned 50 uh and I think that there's a moment where need to stop being the man on the front line and become the man that supports the man on the front line. um andyagi, right? I always mistrust coaches or consultants that are too young

because in my opinion there's a big element of having lived a life with success and with mistakes and with ups and downs with with the level of self-esteem that allows you to acknowledge when you screwed up because hopefully that those are bumps that you will save whoever you're working with. And in my current phase, I'm I'm advising multiple companies and I work directly with the CEOs. And having been there before and having been in that seat before and having had probably most of the problems that they are having, I believe put me in a good position to understand them and and and and to potentially

help. You know, >> battle scars, right? you put something really interesting I pulled out which said you may be a founder leader and face of your company but if you don't have control eventually the company's going to take a turn that you may not agree with very true I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about that because um I think it's something that most people actually don't realize they might think that they have full control but at some point that exactly happened so can you talk a little bit more about what you meant with that and maybe even with an example of

how that happened to Absolutely. Uh I mean I'm not a very materialistic guy. I I honestly don't care a lot about money. Of course, if I don't have it, you know, I get frustrated and concerned, but it's not my goal to be become a billionaire or whatever. You know, I I I think I already have more than I need and and I'm happy with them. It none of my ventures have been motivated by that. I've been more motivated on building stuff, build building something that grows, that's meaningful, that grows a team and that that the team achieves, you know, professional and personal level certain things. So

in that situation, I I was never too precious about levels of ownerships. So I I always knew what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go. So I would always raise, you know, the money that I needed to execute that quickly. That that would put you in a minority immediately. I wouldn't usually care because I'm the one who knows who's going to tell me to go in a different direction. Right? It's on their best benefit to let me do my job. But at some point majority decides a different path. Uh and you may not agree with that path and you cannot stop it. Honestly, that's

something that happened in both in Leanda and Vira. I wanted to do something different and majority said, "No, we're going that way." Yeah, but I'm the one that knows, you know, should be that way. No, no, that way. We have the majority. Oh, hell. So, that's when you realize that it's not so much a matter of power, control, ego, having majorities. It's a matter of you know essence preservation of your business that you will not be able to defend if you don't have that control and fortunately I mean while I have my differences and I left etc I was very fortunate that in both cases

you know they were honorable people and it's not that they did terrible things that I couldn't stop because I had a minority they were very sensible and very reasonable about all the things that they I'm specifically strict with you know when you terminate people the terms of termination being you know respectful and mindful of certain things with the different cultures etc. And they were all very respectful of all those things which is something I really appreciate because I'd be super uncomfortable with the team that I build being terminated in a wrong way and uh that that's a non-negotiable for me and they were very respectful

of that which is something I appreciate. A while back I had me Gus on the podcast and we were talking about that same thing kind of bootstrap business versus funding it and he was saying many founders don't realize that you kind of trade your crown for a fuel tank and you're suddenly no longer the king of the castle anymore and I think it's a really good description. So when you look back then Romero would you have done anything differently in terms of diluting that ownership or the minority shareholder? I think I would have defended my position a lot more than I did with Leander. I

just didn't care. You know, I just wanted to get started. I wanted the money to get started. That's good enough. I don't mind. When I was starting Vira had a meeting with a very strong person from the industry that when he knew I left Leander, he came to see me and say, you know, want to do something with you, etc. What do you want to do? And I put on a paper the project and I was keeping my majority. And I remember him saying, "And I have a big bird, but I'm not Santa Claus." You know, and it's a different story. Instead of having your

project in a napkin, thinking that your backstory will support the fact that you can deliver and that allows you to defend the majority versus having certain progress that allows you to defend a different valuation and maybe do a small race and then another race at a different value. Those are things that I I never cared so much about that now that I advise people to do do a capital race that takes you not all the way but takes you here because that will allow you to defend a different valuation going here etc. So I'm very pro- entpreneur. I'm very much of the idea that you

know it is the founding group and it's the entrepreneurs that need to retain the capacity to have the spirit of the project respect it you know with with respect and responsibility towards investors but I I would advise people to do pretty much very different from what I did in many aspects. again the experience comes in right battle scars again I think I love that it's a really good segue to strategic advisory which you launched in November 2025 we've seen it from close we were talking through that period actually and that's kind of where where we met so tell me a little bit more about that

what was it like to go from this full-time role to more advisory multiple clients during the few months between vibra and the launch how was that process for you >> well it was a lot of thinking involved you know whether I wanted to start something new. I had some people offering me investment to start a new venture, but I didn't feel I wanted to, you know, I I I to be honest, I did it twice in the industry. They were not a billion dollar company, none of them. But I'm very proud of what I did with both projects and I didn't do bad either, you

know. So, I I didn't feel the need of doing it again with Vira. I did feel the need of proving the stripes of CEO and this time doing it myself. After Vira, I didn't feel the need of doing that again. I I I was always curious of of a big project that goes to that billion thing, you know, and and that's probably the part that I miss and the part that I'm still curious about. I think that this Miyagi situation of being the one that can help younger generations or people with different expertise to make it to the next level. I felt that that's what

I wanted. As a matter of fact, I even started the coaching certificate because I I took it very seriously to be able to assist the CEOs that I'm working with, not only with my experience or being there, etc., but in a way that it really helps them find their own path, not just my path. No. So the end decision was okay, I I don't want to look for a CEO position. I don't want to start a new venture. I want to help a handful of businesses and I don't want to have 30 clients and I don't believe and that's again ego. I don't believe that

anyone in the industry would get business out of publishing a selfie with me or saying that they are with me. It's it's about really getting involved, understanding the business, the industry. And what I decided is okay, I'm going to have I don't know five, six clients, not more than that. And these clients, I'm going to get involved as board advisor because I'm not good at selling just anything. I need to sell something. I understand. So coming as board advisor helps me understand the entire company the P&L I need as a a situation from having being a CEO so many years I need to understand everything

about the company I need to understand what's a reasonable marketing budget for that company whether it's high or low so I want to understand the whole thing and based on what happens I need to be very active in formulating a strategy you know normally it's market access you know from one place to another and then being very involved on the execution I am very mindful that I can do great powerpoints I can talk great strategy whatever but at the end of the day I'm going to be judged by uh the sales this company needs to make more money by working with me than they did

before you call it phase two right and I think it's such a that's really what it's all about it's in the end we're not paid for our look Fortunately, in my case, >> oh man, you've lost I was just going to say with the selfies, you've lost so much weight people probably won't even recognize you upward amount of weight you've lost >> 20 25 kilos. >> Unbelievable. Well done, Romero. Really, really good. Um, one of the things you wrote down is you said as a leader, you cannot be seen in doubt, in weakness, or needing help. I am not 100% sure. I agree with that

obviously because of what we do, right? At least that's why we sent up the whole mastermind bits. But telling a little more about what made you say that and how you feel about that now within your company, you you are the leader, you are the responsible friend of mine tells me, imagine you're in a boat and all of a sudden the captain says, I have no clue where we are and how to get people will start chopping out of the boat. Sadly within your company you can't and if you do because you feel that people is prepared to hear that at some point you realize

the words. So that's why I value so much a space like a gaming leaders because I mean in your industry if you talk to your wife she'll support you but she doesn't understand your industry. Uh if you talk to your team employees managers they'll panic and eventually it will backfire 100%. And if you talk to friends from the industry, they're probably competitors, clients, suppliers. So tough as well. So a safe place like I gaming leaders where you can chat with industry people in a context where everything's confidential. We're here to help each other. We're all going through the same situations. It's a different situation, right? >> Yeah, I

agree. And I think it's even with your board, right? your board doesn't want to hear the doubts or the you need to portray security there as well and confidence in your decision making. So it's really from all angles, right? >> Doesn't mean arrogance, doesn't mean not listening, doesn't mean not asking, but you're the guy that's supposed to know where we're going and pretty good at knowing where to go and how to go and what to do. But there are very difficult times with all companies. With Vira, it was very difficult for us as as it was for all B2B going through the Brazilian regulation. All

B2Bs that stayed within the regulated side, their income suffered and that generated almost in all the companies that we talk about of the record, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Let's let's talk a little bit about regulation actually. Romero, you said publicly that NASA regulators are making the same mistakes as UK and Germany. A lot of the people are obviously, you know, feeling in the UK now have been feeling it for a while in Germany, Netherlands, same kind of craziness. And you said sadly that doesn't seem to be the case of them learning from it, right? If why is that you think and what's going

on? Tell me a little bit more about your thoughts behind that. Sadly, politics are short-term and in general are populistic. I mean, they care more about building a gambling regulation that works. It's probably going to outlive their term and they are concerned about their term and the short term. So, you're seeing now in Brazil, you've got about 30% of the voters respond to the evangelistic church. And the evangelistic church is against gambling. So whether it's Lula or Sonaro, they're hitting, you know, gambling just to get the favor of the voters from the church. And re reality is people is going to gamble and and the

best solution for problematic gambling for everything is regulated gambling, regulated operators. And that doesn't work if of the market is unregulated. And a big reason why it is unregulated is because of the limitations and and the struggles that the regulated operators go with. Imagine you are a Brazilian operator. You pay like five $6 million to get a license. Then you need to pay taxes. then you need to comply with certifications level that are beyond anything that I have seen anywhere and just because of that that ends up with them having 10 or 15% of the content that an unregulated operator would normally have and this

unregulated operator is not a dark alley. It's an operator that's regulated in other countries that do global ads. So it's not a group that will steal your money and not pay your award. It's of course I mean they are not paying tax so they they can have smaller margins higher RTP. So how do you compete with that? But of course it's very difficult for a politician to be see as friends from gambling. So whenever there's a problem underage gambling, the guys that get smashed are the regulated operators while effectively there's no way that an underage can bet on a regulated operator. It's on the unregulated. >> Yeah, it's

a really hard piece because I'm going to gaming in Holland next month and I don't know too much about Dutch regulation. I'm not an expert, but I've read up on it quite a bit and they're currently talking about taking away marketing completely out of the market. And one of the arguments of the industry is that okay if you take away the marketing from the regulated guys then how does a consumer even know what's regulated versus unregulated because like you rightly say these are international businesses just don't pay taxes or have a license in that particular jurisdiction. So what you know what in general terms could

regulated operators do to maybe have a stronger say or combat against that type of financial firepower that unregulated might have. >> There are a few things. First you need to allow the regulated operators to be competitive, right? They need to be competitive against unregulated. You need to stop hitting them in the head publicly whenever something bad is done by unregulated. they need to be competitive and of course enforcement need to happen with unregulated but now there's a point where I do have a bit of a conflict which is advertising because while I think advertising is good and operators should be able to advertise I'm also

mindful that underage see the advertising of the regulated operators they want to gamble they want to go there, they can't because they're underage and they go to the unregulated and that was generated by the advertising of of the regulated casinos. So that's one to think about you know I'm not saying ban you know advertising on gambling otherwise I won't be able to show up next week in motor but it requires some careful thinking you know you wrote in a launch piece that as CEO of Leandra and Vibra you would dedicated most of your time to task different from the ones where you could add most

value if you kind of project that now back onto kind how other founder CEOs are, you know, maybe young early in their founder and CEO days where they are spending their time incorrectly. What would you say that mostly is? Where do you feel looking back at yourself or looking back at others people are spending their time incorrectly and where should they systematically start overspending their time in in this year? >> Really depends on their profile. You know, I during my last years, I I feel that having been so long in the industry, having built the relationships that I built, I should be dedicating a lot

more time to those relationships, which is where business comes from. I I didn't have enough time. So, I ended up working double shift to be able to go to the events, go to those meetings, but I couldn't do enough of them, plus sorting the other things. So, I think it really depends on the profile, and it also depends on the team they build around them. So if your team can really take own responsibility on certain tasks and take them off your shoulders, then you can be a CEO and take time. At some point what ends up happening is someone else is appointed CEO and the

person that should be out there meeting changes as vice president, chairman or something like that which unties his hand because CEO cannot hide. You cannot hide from a problem from a situation. you need to be there and if you want to move into a more strategic role it's probably more a change of role and someone else coming as co brilliant what Alex Tomik did with Alia Jordi a great friend the great CEO he's doing a fantastic job and tying the ties the hands of Alex to do the strategic the ambassador situation such a charismatic charming guy so so that's brilliant well And by then they

sorted it in a great way. Uh that that's one way to go. >> Given a budget then turn up everywhere then do do your unique sort of genius. He turned up to few of our bastan sessions in a in his oxygen tank which is I also loved by the >> Yeah. What I don't like about Alex is he's too tall and he makes us look short >> and he makes us look very unhealthy as well at the same time. Hey uh Romero is a 30-year-old 38-year-old version of you was starting lay under today in 2026. What's the first thing you would tell him not to

do? Fight harder for your starting sh. That's one thing. And believe more in what you defend more what you believe. What happens is during that time you're surrounded with people that have more experience older than you and you think you know actually I think they are wrong and I think it should be different way but they know more than I do and in time you realize that your gut was right and that you should have fought hard just without being arrogant and listening but trust your gut you know the more it goes by the more I trust My god. Now if I'm working in a

project and 3 months after I still don't understand what they're trying to do and it doesn't feel right, it's probably not right. I love that. Back yourself. Yeah, great. Great point. Uh my very last question, you wrote that you enjoy having to validate yourself in different types of context, right? Not out of doubt, but out of confidence. I think that's a really good point because many of us especially at popular organizations they haven't had to validate themselves for years. So if somebody's listening and is thinking that like I haven't validated myself for x amount of years what would you say to them? >> Well first

you need to be ready to to do that I mean you you sometimes people feel that they do need to prove themselves again because they've done a lot and recently I had a fun experience. I went to the Indian gaming show in San Diego and I'm I'm used to going to the events and knowing most of the people there. I barely knew anyone and and I loved it, you know, because it reminds me every time I had to start over again with something and where I needed to validate myself and prove myself again and find people that probably doubting your capacities or what you can

do or what you deliver and far from feeling offended. I like that, you know, because I know what I can do. That that's why I think that, you know, people should work on their self-esteem. If you have a strong self-esteem and you know what you're worth, you're not offended by someone not really realizing or or acknowledging that, it's probably more of okay, you'll see. Not a problem. You know, let's talk again in a year when we done stuff together. I know what I can do and it's okay if you don't. It's fine. You know, validating yourself in different spaces requires to develop different skills, develop

different relationships. If you enjoy that, that's great. If you don't enjoy it, of course, avoid it. You know, just live with your own success and continue to feed from that. I personally I appreciate whatever good I did in the past and whatever recognition I get from the past, but uh I'm a big fan of Paul McCartney, you know, and he's not singing yesterday. He's he's releasing a new album in 5 days at 82. He's doing different stuff and he's proving himself all the time. And man, if he's doing that, I mean, how come not us, you know? Great note to um to end on. Romero, thank

you very much for your time and sharing your experience. Been great having you on the podcast. >> My pleasure. Always good talking to you. Thank you. >> Thank you for listening to the i Gaming Leader podcast. If you're a VP, a director, founder, or an executive in I gaming, making the biggest decisions alone. That's exactly what I've built I Gaming Leader Mastermind for. small inner circles of vetted senior executives, weekly hot seats, and accountability from people who understand the effects of the decisions that you need to make. Find out more and apply at i gamingleer.com. And a final thanks to our sponsor, Sumsup, the full

cycle verification platform for i gaming operators. Player onboarding, AML, fraudrevention, all in one place. More at sumsup.com/gambling. See you next week.

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