Sasha Uman: Building your own future, Sasha Uman’s Journey to CCO at Playtech Live

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I have met the high management of platic here in jalta in the Canen one day and then one day I just decided to knock on their door and introduce myself to them and sort of just try to sell myself which is a vicious circle when you're not functioning properly at work yes you don't perform as well and then you're not happy with yourself and then it just it's impossible to stop it it's important to have people that you can joke with that you can share information with and that you can get advice from right and for me it's been critical to find these people to

support them and then have them support me and I remember I would try to skip through the hotel lobby really really quickly to get to the lift and go to my room because I just didn't want to awkwardly stand there while no no one is speaking to me it was a horrible social experience for me to delegate better is just to start delegating that would be that would be step one welcome to the igaming leader podcast where we uncover The Human Side of some of the most inspirational leaders in our industry I'm your host Leo Judkins and as an exi gaming director turn performance coach

I've worked with over 200 leaders from companies like AME 365 floter and many more to help them build the habits to achieve sustainable high performance in these episodes we share exactly what it takes for you to achieve the same so with that being said let's dive in welcome to the igaming leader podcast today I'm joined by Sasha uman the chief commercial officer playtech lives super excited to have you here Sasha we've been talking a little bit beforehand and um yeah just wanted to say welcome because I am so excited to have you here you've been recommended by Lex and uh yeah I can't wait to

hear your story thank you very much it's a pleasure to be here and thank you Lex for recommending me he has high expectations from this podcast as well which is good which is good Sasha I I really wanted to start off with your career if if that's okay for you you've had such an impressive career from Finance associate to Chief commercial officer when you look back what are some of the moments you're most proud of in that entire Journey so I think in general maybe we start a step back uh just about how I got into into this you know this world of igaming and

e-commerce so U I moved to Israel in 2010 and in Israel if you're not a lawyer or software engineer you work in gaming or back then it was Forex or binary options that nobody talks about anymore but it was that's that's what we did back then so when I moved to Israel in 2010 I got exposed to this amazing world of uh I gaming and uh I finance and I started as a finance manager and I then I I drifted through online marketing roles as an affiliate manager as head of Affiliates but I think the biggest step for me and the most important step for

my future career and personal life as well was actually moving to playtech so I was working in one of the play group companies it was amazing but I always you know I was always following the the develop ment of playtech you know as the mother company and the achievements and I always knew that that's where I want to work so I think that step of actually moving making this move to to the nuclear plch that was the best thing that I've done I love it why was that why did you always know that that's the place that you wanted to to end up at in

general I'm a really ambitious person I hope I'm not driven by ego probably both ego and ambition and I think it's also it's hard to tell which is which is which but I wanted to do great things I wanted to work in a big company I wanted to be successful I wanted to have a high significant role within a big Corporation to work across different markets across different products and plch is I think a unique company that offers all of that there are not that many companies in the industry that offer that yeah okay makes a lot of sense hey and um when we were

speaking before right one of the things I loved is is just your approach to what I'd call knocking on doors and actually putting s out there right so I want to talk a little bit about your journey within playtech how you went from from business development manager to now CCO and especially about that that path of yeah like making sure you're actually seen it was advice that I heard from you that I thought was so good and that not enough people uh actually take so can you share a little bit more about that journey and and what some of the things were that you did

thing is I'm a person that I doubt myself a lot and I've been battling self-doubt for years and you know sometimes I feel that I I really you know I've gotten much better and I feel much more confident and I'm not there anymore in that time when I was I would doubt every step step I make and then I see something happens that I still you know still throws me back to to how I felt before so I've had this idea about working at playtech um for for a while and I was thinking you know what could be the way for me to get into

the door uh and as I told you I basically I am I have met the High management of platic here in jalta in the Canen one day so I sort of I knew the faces I knew who they were and then one day I just decided to knock on their door and introduce myself to them because they they they've seen me around but they've never met me so introduce myself and sort of just try to sell myself it was very difficult especially because you know very often we are we embarrassed to ask in general we are brought up especially in in Eastern Europe where I

come from asking is embarrassing we are brought up with this uh state of mind that things need to be offered to you and then you politely AC accept or politely decline but you don't fight for it especially as a woman as well you know you don't ask and you for sure don't you know don't don't force yourself don't present yourself at somebody's doorstep you know to to speak to them especially if it's Senior Management that's just something that you don't do so it was really difficult for me but at the same time I thought you know what am I losing maximum I will have to

avoid them in the con next time you know that's that's the worst that can happen here yeah so um I introduced myself and I introduced my skills and it worked out well you know there was a good connection from the start and um I was I was taking into playtech as a business development manager that gave me confidence and that also taught me that these things are possible in order for you to to succeed you need to build your own future no one will do it for you you know the only people that want to take care of you are your parents and they can't

help me here in play Tech you know so it has to be so I I have to I'm on my own I have to do it myself and at when I was moving from to roll within platic as well it was again understanding what I want and then understanding who are the people that can give it to me and then just you know working with these people proving myself and then having the conversation about you know about the next step in general I am a really strong believer in proving yourself through hard work so for me I get Confidence from preparing from knowing from experiencing

and that's that was my Approach in platic as well you know keep your head down learn get familiarized with what you need to do become really good at it and then you can knock on other doors and then you can try try to move I so love it Sasha because so many people are I don't know most people would probably describe it as too polite and they just wait and wait and wait for somebody to hopefully see them but metaphorically even knocking on someone's door right is just the right thing to do because people don't always they don't know what you know they don't see

what you see but that must have been so difficult for you if you've like you were saying before you've you've struggled with self-doubt for a long time that's been a big part of your history that you've battled through and still sometimes run into so how did that moment go the very first time that you were gonna that you decided all right I'm going to do this that self-doubt must have crept up right how were you feeling in that moment and and what were what did you do so the thing is in that moment specifically I had no self-doubt because I'm also very impulsive person ambitious

and impulsive maybe it's not the best mix you know but you know that's what usually happen with me in the moment I feel no doubt at all the doubt is afterward you know when you actually thinking about all when you start processing it um so actually making this first step wasn't too difficult because I I knew I wanted it but then waiting for the answer was very difficult and that's how it always is right you have this conversation you approach the person and then they have other things in their lives not not everything revolves around you so maybe they will take I don't know a

week to get back to a week and a half two weeks of course you you think that's it's all about you right so I I was thinking that's it they they're not interested or they don't think that you know that it's relevant or they think that I embarrass myself so now I will avoid them again because it wasn't the same office so I will avoid them to make sure that you know this the embarrassment never you know hunts me again but it's it's not like this people have especially senior managers they're busy they have other priorities nothing is personal they have lives not everything revolves

around that person that came to to ask and it's it's so easy to fall into this self-doubt and start going over the meeting over and over in your head thinking what did I do wrong what could I have said differently but there's no point to do it because first of all you can't go back and change anything so you did it now you know now live with it and just wait for for everyone to get back to you but I remember as well so I presented myself to to the platic management to to the to the CEO and then maybe a week and a half

passed and I haven't you know I didn't hear back from them so I knocked on the door again and I reminded about myself and then another I don't remember how much but some time passed and again there was no answer so I ran into him at the gym and then at the gym he couldn't really escape from me I again reminded about our conversation and then it happened and what I've learned from this is asking once and having that first meeting is not enough if you really want it you need to follow up and to follow through and to ask again and um not being

embarrassed once is not enough you need to you know come back to it until you get what you want if you really want it if you don't you can drop it but uh if you really want it you have to follow up such a great parallel with sales right and Business Development it's the same thing yeah the big part of that is getting over yourself right getting over your own embarrassment of actually doing it we're often our own worst enemies great advice so Sasha when the the overthinking afterwards right you're better with that now you said so what are some of the things that you

that you've done or that you do to help you with overcoming that overthinking when maybe you've had a big conversation or there's been a big decision or there's been a big event that's happened and you're not just not sure if you've handled it well how do how do you deal with that now luckily I'm very busy so being busy helps with overthinking you overthink for a while and then you just move on to to think about other things so just keeping my s busy helps me with that I have a few people who are very close to me some work with me some don't who

I just sort of talk through the situation and then they and sort of move on after I've spoken to them what I try to do most times is to ask myself can I do something about the situation now to to make it better to to speed it up to to impact it in any way and if the answer is no I just try to sort of forbid myself to think about it to go to go to that place and I think the the combination of of all these three elements at the end helps me move on and not to overthink that's one thing isn't it

it's so easy to stay stuck in your head but when you start talking to somebody about it it it makes a massive difference it's important to have that environment around you when you didn't have these tools you know a few years ago a few like maybe at the beginning of your career what would be some of the consequences of you overthinking things too much would it result into you going down rabbit hole and starting to endlessly doubt everything what did that look like what were some of the consequences of you overthinking so yes going down that rabbit hole where you start doubting everything not only

everything you're doing now but everything you've done in the past all of a sudden the past achievements are no longer relevant all of a sudden you're you know thinking even that you know even that didn't matter and of course like nothing that you'll do will ever matter and at the end it would impact my productivity at work and at home because I would take myself to the place where I'd be so upset about something something that yeah I wouldn't be functioning properly not at work and not at home which again which is a vicious circle because when when you're not um functioning properly at work

yes you don't perform as well and then you're not happy with yourself and then it just it's impossible to stop it it's really really difficult to snap out of this once you're in it that's why it's just better not to go to go into it I love that you've overcome that because that's something that so many I struggle with it regularly overthinking and it's some something that so many of us get St in and and and then that self-doubt creeps Creeps in how's that been through through your career because in I think in about four years or so you've moved from from bizdev all the

way up to CCO that must have gone with you know maybe sometimes feeling like an imposter or perhaps feeling that you're not sure about what to do how did you how did you deal with that I have to say that in the last let's say three four years I've been really fortunate to have a really strong support support system you know professionally that helped me overcome the Imposter syndrome and in general self-doubt I think in general it's very important to have few people that are your people at work because at the end we spend a lot of time at work it's important to have people

that you can joke with that you can share information with and that you can get advice from right and for me it's been critical to find these people to support them and then have them support me I remember when I just joined playtech it was a big role I was responsible for the Branded Business Development which meant speaking with big entertainment companies in the US like Warner Brothers MGM Sony Pictures so really really big companies which already make you feel like an imposter because it's just you know they're so great and you're based here in jalta what what you know what do I know about

entertainment and also you know being new at playtech with this big role being in business development or in sales can be very l because you don't usually have a team you have a team who are your competitors in a way right because you're going after different deals or sometimes after the same deal and when it came to branded Business Development it was just me so it's it's it's a rather lonely role because you don't have anyone you can ask for advice you know people don't have time for you so it can be it can be very difficult and I'm a very friendly person but I

remember my first ice when pler goes to ice we usually have the whole hotel to ourselves and it can be a very pleasant social event for Sam or it can be a disaster if you're new if you are just learning the the robes I remember I I knew hardly I hardly knew anyone at playtech and I remember I would try to skip through the hotel lobby really really quickly to get to the lift and go to my room because I just didn't want to to awkwardly stand there while no no one is speaking to me it was just it was a horrible social experience it

it was difficult and it can be difficult for for many people I'm sure because I'm outgoing so if it was difficult for me I can imagine how difficult it could have been for you know for people who are more introverted but then you know with time I found those people that I work well with that value me and who I value professionally and once and a group like this you know people like this give you confidence professional confidence friendly support you give them friendly support and then it helps you overcome self-doubt and helps you overcome insecurities in the professional world and I think for me

again you know having this people really helped me succeed because next time I wanted to switch roles next time I wanted to speak with somebody you know knock on on the next door I would ask them like how do you what do you think do you think it's a good idea do you think you know and get their perspective and they would Empower me the same way that I would Empower them each time they would you know they would want to make a change amazing session such a such a great story one of the things I often see with people that they find really difficult

is actually taking off that mask you know what I mean sometimes we want to look professional and we want to be professional and we want to show ourselves from our best side because that you know that goes hand inand with career progression and salary progression and all of that but sometimes the best moments are actually when you take off the mask and you show your real self and and and you lean into that Network right so can you talk to me a little bit more about that like how's how's that gone for you have you found that difficult some people find it really hard you

know to to be their authentic self or is that something that you've always done is that something that you learn to do how how did that go for you I think I do I am rather myself most of the time but I I cover myself up with being polite in a way and I'll explain what I mean very often I'll say that something is fine even when it's not very often I would say yes just because it doesn't feel right to me saying No actually that's something that I'm trying to work on how to be myself but not in a way not to be more

open not to be more authentic not to be more transparent not that because that I'm okay with but just sort of speaking up when something is not fine saying no when something doesn't feel right and it's you know it can be small things like um you know attending a meeting late in the evening and try you know to prioritize that meeting over the needs of my family even though that meeting is not really needed but I don't feel nice you know saying no so it can be something small like that or it can be bigger things for me that that's the main challenge now just

to to actually prioritize what's best for me in that moment and make make decisions and you know reply in a way that that basically reflects that and not uh my uneasiness or me trying to be polite it's so difficult right those boundaries and and um I want to go back to something that you said in the beginning where you talked about one of the one of your core values is working hard knowing your stuff right and then only then kind of knocking on doors and and showing yourself which is such great work work ethic but that as a you know I know you've got kids

right so as a as a person as a family can be really really difficult to then balance those two things and make sure that you have good enough boundaries to also not just physically be present but mentally be present at home right so how have you what what are some of the things that you've learned over time you know as a parent and being able to like learning to switch off and and then being there with the kids and partner how's that how's what if what are some of the things that you've learned over time there first of all I think playte is an incredible

company when it comes to work life balance and PLC in general values family time and I've been extremely lucky with my managers as well who always have respected the fact that you know I have families they have families so it's been I've been really lucky because it's been comfortable yes you know you have to work hard yes you have to work late yes you would have a lot of business trips but there's always understanding and there's you know I I never feel afraid to have to leave early or to have to attend school functions or to to switch off during the during the evening because

platic has accommodated for me and for everyone else I think other people would agree that the culture within platic is really healthy when it comes to work life balance in general and in addition to that of course I have a good support system at home as well which is extremely important to to have this balance because like like it's important to have support at work it's even more important to have support at home you know but in general I remember times my eldest son is now 10 and a half so I remember remember times when I would think twice about mentioning you know my my

children or then then child you know in the office setting um I remember you know not trying to hide it but you know it's just something that you wouldn't talk about because then people will think that you won't be as committed to work or you won't be as available but I have to tell you that I haven't felt this in years and I have three children and I haven't felt that I need to try I try avoiding talking about my kids or that I can be view differently because I have kids I haven't felt this in years in years I don't even remember how that

feel I think you know the fact that I have kids doesn't make me stronger or weaker it's just a fact that doesn't really have much to do with what I do at work you know people that say that you know you do it all no one does it all but I think the kind of workplace that I I work for and the kind of managers I had helps me balance what I have at home in a much better way same as my family and you know the support system that I have at home helps me balance what I need to do at work yeah I

love that look one of the big things that I often see and I struggle with personally as well and have have done in the past is that it's not just the work environment right it's actually often just ourselves we want to keep on working and we want to you know like we we're often our own worst enemies and yet again realizing when that happens and learning helpful behaviors to switch off I think can can really help there even if you've got massive supporting surrounding because your head just keeps on going sometimes right I think that's the um that's the hardest part so yeah let's talk

a little bit about travel if that's okay and Conference like our our typical you know industry thing right where lots of conferences how do you deal with that Sasha just kind of coming back maybe there's some work waiting for you in the office of course kids are excited to see you again you know and you you probably tired from long you know a long event three four days being away 5 days maybe so how do you deal with that what are some things that you find really challenging and what are some things that you've learned work well for you in in your conference management so

usually when I go away I try to still stay on top of my inbox just because I know that if I don't I'll have anxiety over what's waiting for me when I get back home so I try to prevent it I try to catch up on emails and messages every day it doesn't usually take that long so even catching an hour between the the conference and dinner to sort of get control over over my inbox then helps me get you know to actually focus on being at home once I get home because for me and again like I get anxiety if I know that there's

a lot of work waiting for me I get anxiety when people are waiting for my approval to proceed with something and I'm not providing it to them because at the end it's not my team's fault that I'm traveling right they shouldn't be their day to-day shouldn't be changing just because I'm somewhere we're in business so I'm trying now to prevent this things anxiety by just trying to do every a bit you know a little bit of work every day even with on conference and then come back to hopefully a cleaner inbox doesn't always work but at least you know at least I try yeah that

makes sense I'd like to talk a little bit about challenges if that's okay so I often see that our biggest challenges become our biggest lessons as well they become they often become the drivers that when we're in the middle of it is so horrible but they become our biggest lesson and often the things that really Define us you know our futures what have been some of the challenges in your leadership you know in your leadership career that helped Define you and how you show up as as as a person in your team and within your business the biggest challenge in my previous role before I

joined playtech where the company management changed while I was on maternity leave actually uh and I came back to a new reality where there was someone else doing the same role as me and we were supposed to work together and you know how well that always turns out and I remember I completely folded it's not nice to you know to think about it now it's not nice remembering that now because I'm not happy with how I acted back then I sort of accepted that this is what it is now and I sort of I don't want to say give up because give up is too

too strong of a word but I I got extremely down because again I Define myself through work and Through My Success at work whether it's right or wrong I don't know but that it is what it is you know so for me having that someone else doing my job together with me was was a sign of failure now looking back I understand that the new management needed their people I wasn't one of their people and it's it's fine at the end me and the other guy we became really good friends we're still in touch back then I just I sort of I took a step

back and I let that decision impact who I was with my team who I was at home even you know so it's very difficult for me to you know to think back about the time because I'm thinking you know why I did this why I didn't fight why I didn't even have a conversation with my new boss asking why this decision was taken whether I could maybe pick up some additional responsibilities to differentiate myself from my colleague I didn't even I didn't even try to fight I just accepted it and then after I did and I moved to playtech I told myself never again never

again maybe I will again find myself in this situation because anything can happen but never again will I accept the situation in the same way I did back then it was a really big Challenge and I didn't handle it right the first the first time around but I I learned something from it I try to stay away from strong statements you know I would never do this again but I know that I would never allow myself to be in that place again where I give up where I just accept the reality as is if it matters to me if I don't agree with it if

it's fine with me it's also okay to take a back seat if that's what you want but that's not what I wanted and I didn't thank you for sharing that Sasha because that must have been such a difficult period you come out of I mean you're already on maternity leave right you come back how many how how long were you away for I came back after three months because I was too concerned about everything that was happening at work and that I'm also not proud of like I'm really not proud of you know running back to the office because I was afraid that I'll be

you know I'll be replaced so how does that show up now how do you deal with adversity now and and you know things that you disagree with when you feel that something is unjust or you know how do how do you deal with that now first I would ask myself how important it is to me right because if it's not really important it's not worth fighting for but if it is important then I would fight for it until the end in my own way and doing thing things in my own way I think is what gave me you know strength over the years and what

helped me succeed in things I did it's a it's an interesting story actually around four or five years ago I worked with a positive psychology specialist who actually who was working for playtech and she held one-on-one sessions and also um group activities which are which are great and I remember the first time I spoke to her I told her look there are these three people that I really I find them really successful I find them really good at what they do I admire them on the professional level so I want to have their skill I want to act like like they act I want to

be like them and she told me but that's not how it works you need to look at your own strengths and at your own weaknesses but we are here to talk about positive psychology of strengths we need to look at what you what what your strong sides are and then what you want to achieve and how you achieve it using your strengths because if you will try to do something like someone else does you could maybe you'll succeed but you'll have the aftertaste all through you know all through the success you'll have this aftertaste of things not sitting right with you because at the end

you will achieve it not through your own way but through through a way that belongs to somebody else and I really you know I really connected to that and I've been sort of following this philosophy ever since because four or five years ago I was thinking you know in order to be successful you need to be ruthless and and I'm not a ruthless person so this means that I need to become ruthless but she explained to me that you know you can't become ruthless you either are or you're not uh and if you try to become ruthless you'll feel bad afterwards because that's not who

you are you need to find ways to achieve what you need through being polite through being hardworking through being nice through being friendly through one of your strengths and that's you know that's that's what I've been following until now and I and I'm a strong believer in that I really think that possible to to achieve things in your own way there's no one way that works for for all it's important to figure out how you want things to be what you're comfortable comfortable with what you're not comfortable with and then you know and then act accordingly yeah amazing great advice because it's so easy to

see someone else and just do exactly the same thing as they're doing but then you're just not your authentic self right and it just goes against your core values I think also it doesn't mean that you can't mimic behaviors as long as they're just aligned with who you are right hey if you're a VP a director founder or executive in igaming and you want to achieve sustainable high performance without sacrificing your personal life or your well-being then the igaming leader Mastermind might be your kind of thing it is a highly vetted community in which we work together with other igaming leaders in the industry to

achieve that sustainable High performance because leadership in igaming can be really lonely and isolating but when you've got the right people around you it can make such a difference to your performance your productivity and your personal life so if that's something you want to know a little bit more about head over to igaming leer.com and apply to join you mentioned there were a few challenges that you wanted to talk about or that you wanted to share any any others that you feel kind of really defined your leadership Journey there session another challenge for me and I've had it several times was when I was assigned

a team that already existed that was already managed by someone else and for me you know coming in into a pre-existing team has proven in the past rather challenging because there's a really thin line about keeping things that were in the way they were done before making changes and how to make these changes properly so the team is comfortable with that and what to keep from from the previous times what not to keep it's difficult so for me that's that's been very challenging and and I've been lucky with having amazing teams but also managing them remotely you know um my team is is based in

Ria now mostly so managing them remotely coming into really big shoes of the previous manager having that you know that part of business in addition to other elements that my role is comprised of so that I think in general that's rather difficult people management is always difficult managing people remotely is very difficult coming into an existing team very difficult and I need I know that I need to become a better manager I don't think that I'm always my best self when I manage people so that's something that I definitely need to work on so why do you say that Sasha where do you see that

where do you see that perhaps you have areas that you really want to improve on or where do you feel that sometimes you're not the best manager I think sometimes I don't in invest enough into their professional development into my team's professional development because you know we're all busy and I'm busy and sometimes I think you know just doing something myself instead or just having a quick call where I sort of quickly explain how it needs to look it's just it's faster than in investing into team development on daily basis teaching them and educating them bringing them up to the point where they can do

things on their own that's what I'm not prioritizing now and that's something that I want work on and become better at for sure it's so difficult isn't it with delegation like really we should all Delegate for development and we should delegate you know not just tasks but actual actual decisions but the difficulty is that you know if we don't have to explain it and we do it ourselves of course it's going to be faster yeah but then you become the bottleneck as well right and and that development never happens so um yeah it's a real struggle so have you found ways to deal with that

effectively especially when deadlines are tied or you're under a lot of pressure to to perform in a certain period of whatever a certain period of performance what are some of the things that you've tried or you are practicing to to help you with with delegating better for me to delegate better is just to start delegating that would be that would be step one and actually I've seen projects where I would bring some of my team in from the very beginning where they would attend the first demo call and then would work with me towards the signature of the contract or you know the buildt of

the studio where the team was involved from the very beginning it was much easier to delegate as well right because they knew what I was talking about so I didn't have to start from scratch each time I want to to to speak to them so I think for me just remembering to involve the right people from the first call that's already you know the the first step on the way to to then further delegate and also I think over the years I've um I've learned the strengths of each of the member of my team so now I know who is the the best placed person

to handle a certain case and to to work together with me on a certain case so then I would involve them early on in the process and then I can you know I'm 100% confident in them and then I know that things will get done and then coming back to the to the conference question that's one of the way to cope because now when I properly try to delegate I know that my team is there to support me when I'm at the conference and things will get done when I'm at the conference and there won't be bottlenecks and there won't be anxiety of having an

inbox that just that is exploding there's still so much you know so much for me to do and to learn but I'm I'm I'm really I'm really trying this year has been you know that's that's one of my um one of my goals to be to be a better manager it's so interesting we talk about it in our Mastermind all the time as well because it's like a it's like a lever right it's leverage the the problem is short term it doesn't it doesn't give you any time actually it costs a time or short term but long term it really frees you up and it

allows you then to do all of the higher level stuff that you know strategic thinking Project work that is going to deliver far more value and you'll finally have time for that but it means that you have to go through this shortterm pain of spending a lot of time explaining everything and then when it comes back you know of course it has to be redone and you have to have feedback and I think that's the that's the hardest bit but at the same time you know if we're speaking about the this the the support you know support system at work people that work directly with

you in your team may have a different point of view may see things in a different light so having their feedback is is also extremely important for the success of the project right and uh again involving people and working with them and speaking to them more can lead to this time well being well spent and not you know not sort of invested invested for nothing yes yeah actually it goes back to what we were saying way earlier in the beginning which is about the that it's when you're overthinking it's so easy to be stuck in your own head and you keep on going and going

and going in spirals this is true for strategic projects as well so the more that you actually talk with your team and and work on delegation the more input you get and the more diverse type of thinking you get which allows you then to see something from multiple angles which perhaps you haven't seen by yourself before if you think about somebody in uh in business development that wants to make the same sort of progress accelerate their career just like you have think about yourself five five and a half years ago what are some of the advice you would you would give them what what are

some of the things that you feel somebody that would really put somebody on the front foot when it comes to progressing their career I think success can be achieved through hard work and through knowledge so first learn my first advice would be just learn try to be a true professional at what you do try to have deep understanding of what you do try to understand not on the you know the the sales pitch but if we're talking about you know selling I gaming product try to understand those product play those games speak to people from different departments don't talk only about Revenue share right because

to close the revenue share percentage is the easiest thing know everything else represent the company fully because if you do that you may find yourself at some point working more closely together with the not only the the sales team the business development team but other teams within the company may be changing your career direction to work in a different team but if you if you don't ask questions and if you don't meet with people if you don't gather that knowledge you'll never know that maybe there are other things that may interest you yeah love it thank you very much for being part of the podcast

s it was amazing talking to it was a pleasure thank you thank you for joining me on the igaming leader podcast if you enjoyed today's episode head over to igaming leader.com for more conversations and insights don't forget to subscribe to this podcast I'm your host Leo Judkins and hope to see you next week

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