Nakeeta Janse van Rensburg: Who am I when I leave the Company? The Story of Nakeeta Janse van Rensburg

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Some businesses actually do expect the team to die for the business and will even use that language or they will use the language of we're a family which is really lovely but it can be quite problematic trying to put boundaries in place cuz with family you're supposed to live and die and breathe for one another. I think we have to be quite careful culturally from that perspective. The need to leave was very much instigated by the fact that I needed to look after my health. There was a whole passion discussion as well. What am I most passionate about? And I've got a growth mindset. I

want to grow things. So, making that decision was actually really hard. It's identity based. Who am I when I leave? Welcome to the i Gaming Leader podcast where we uncover the human side of some of the most inspirational leaders in our industry. I'm your host, Leo Judkins. And as an exi gaming director turned performance coach, I've worked with over 200 leaders from companies like Intane, 365, Flutter, and many more to help them build the habits to achieve sustainable high performance. In these episodes, we share exactly what it takes for you to achieve the same. So, with that being said, let's dive in. Hey everybody, welcome

to the i Gaming Leader podcast. I am so excited because today I am here with Nikita Jansen Fun Rensburg 17 years in I gaming, six years at Ellipse Entertainment, Omega Group. Uh moved from head of CRM up all the way up to group CEO. Super exciting journey that I want to talk about and recently co-founded her own agency stratage and UK ambassador for women in gaming Africa. So uh yeah, really really cool to have you here Nikita. I know we've been we've been speaking for a bit and I'm excited to talk about your journey today. So, welcome to the welcome to the podcast. So, thank

you looking you're really looking forward to it and and actually grateful to be here. Really cool. Hey, we uh we met in Barca at ICE for the first time after somebody in your team had had visited a mastermind session that I'd done for IGB Exec. I remember that we spoke only for a few minutes but what intrigued me the most when we when we talked is is the progress that you made within the business that you were in at the time. So you spoke about how you you know how you moved through the ranks from from head of CRM to group CEO. Super remarkable journey

and I wanted to kind of start off with maybe some of the moments that you were most proud of in that in that journey that you've had there. Yeah, thank you. It was just such an incredible journey over you know that just 17-year period moving through all these different roles. I think big moments for me was I think more on building a team and building a team of people in different time zones with different cultural contexts and bringing them together that they would serve one another. And I and I think that's just so important. And uh when you look back after a shareholder meeting and

your shareholders say to you, "Wow, you built so many leaders." People aren't afraid. They're thinking for themselves. They even challenge the things that we're saying to them or that you say to them because they're looking for clarity. And I think that is probably the the most defining and important part of your leadership is knowing that your team will question you and they don't feel afraid. I think that's so incredibly important and I think probably within our industry, our gaming, everything is about we have an idea, we need to move now, you know, forget about documenting anything, it will just fly. And I think that was

also a really big moment for us was documenting strategies, getting buy in and having a team that's super clear on what needs to happen so that you know even if I wasn't around or sleeping because Australia was up, everyone knew what they had to do and they felt confident in that. they feel confident and empowered in their decision- making. So, I would say that's probably the most, you know, amazing thing for me. But I think within the CRM space, as I'll admit, I'm big fan of CRM and everything about CRM. It's my it's my roots. It's my foundation. But I think one of the biggest

moments was we had seen all these amazing CRM platforms. And I'm talking about, you know, 10 years ago. But I wanted to have my cake and eat it. And I think that was was quite a difficult thing and our founder was like why don't we just build something. So we had sourced the developer and the in 7 months this guy went from nothing to a completed CRM platform so that we could manage everything ourselves internally and then we spent I would say another five months really refining the platform and and that for me was probably the most exciting project I've ever worked on was working

handinhand with this developer retesting re-checking you know comparing our source data and then eventually having a platform that we trusted more than ourselves actually. Yeah. Yeah. So I think yeah that was probably one of the the best moments in CRN. I love that Nikita. You probably don't know this but I had exactly the same journey. So I was the director of retention and we built our own platform after I actually had Penny from Optimov on the on the podcast as well. But after using Optimov, we built our own platform in house and uh same for me like most proudest moment was actually when we rolled

that out so we could do the segmentation the cross channel campaigns. It was awesome. So love that. One of the things that I loved about your answer as well is that you go straight into how when I'm asking you what you're most proudest of is is actually you talk about the team, not yourself, right? And that I think that's such a great show of leadership. But one of the big things that happens for most people with rapid career growth is that it comes with significant challenges, right? Uh I'm thinking things like imposter syndrome, overwork to prove that you belong, sacrificing your personal life, very typical

things that you know come up when people progress really quickly like what what are some of the things that hit hardest for you on that journey and how how did that show up in your daily life? It was actually quite interesting because I spoke to a coach once and he listened to my rant because it's a normal part of leadership. You just have this rant about the overwhelm. It's not even for me personally, I'd say it's not a team thing because I felt it was very important to get to the end of each day not blaming the team for any shortfalls. I think I was

really focused on that because it's so easy to blame the team and then you just have a really horrible toxic environment and and business as a result lose momentum. But I think the the one thing that the coach said to me after my my lovely little rant, he said to me, "Do you know what?" He's like, "You made work priorities and negotiable and everything else is negotiable." That was such a shock moment for me to realize it was in my language. It was the way I spoke. Everything about work was a non-negotiable. I remember once having to travel to a conference on Mother's Day and

my husband is like, "But we've got all these things for the kids that they want to do for you, but it became the non-negotiable of," oh, we can do something in the morning and then I have to get on my flight. Yeah. And it it's not about being a good or a bad person. It's just that you lose your own identity and you you lose track with what are the healthy boundaries that you should have in place. And I'm sure there are tons of other leaders that had that have had this experience where a priority has become a non-negotiable. And I found myself, you know, spending

my Sundays trying to plan my week ahead. And so really there there was no time to reset. And I think it is so very important They do that time to reset because you are in an overwhelm of information really. It's challenges to the strategy. It is contractual items. It's corporate things that you need to think about. There's your team needs especially when there's challenges like co it it that really really challenged us. I think there was hardly a team member who didn't experience some form of loss. either a spouse lost their job or they lost a family member or they lost a friend and you

don't want to compare a job to someone's life but at the end of the day they can have very similar impacts on people when all of a sudden they're one inome household and they can't pay their these become very real things but I think that that is probably the the biggest challenge for any leader is that overwhelm of information you make the business number one and then all the other things are symptomatic the imposttor syndrome constantly needing to prove yourself, working when you're sick, uh, you know, getting a diagnosis from the doctor that you're like literally on the edge of probably dying and you go, do

you know what? I'll get back to that. I I just need to deal with it, you know. Let me park it for a second. Yeah. And I think that that does become the mindset is that you you almost think you're immortal. Yeah. Yeah. But and and that's the thing, right, Nikita? Thank you for sharing that because in our industry things are always they're so fast-paced, right? There is always the next thing. It might be with like you said with with the team or it might be with regulation or you might open up in a new territory that has a specific deadline, whatever it is, right? And

so there is always firefighting. There is always urgent stuff. And so you park the stuff in your private life. And I'm sure that's something that you had noticed before and you'd probably seen before. It took that coach to kind of put that mirror in front of you. But why do you feel that it was so difficult for you to change that and to to maybe crowd in more of your private life over your professional life? Yeah, I'm going to talk about it again. It's boundaries. I didn't create Andre's in the beginning. That that was I I think I was just too inexperienced and I I

didn't think of what it would look like in the long term. So I had no boundaries in the beginning. I was super driven, passionate, and there wasn't that many dynamics to my life. And so, as time went on, it just became the norm to be available at 3:00 in the morning for the team in Australia. But then, conversely, being available at 10:00 at night for, you know, guys in the US. So, I think it it really is that you don't set the boundaries and then as life progresses, you have more layers to your life. Your your elderly parents start getting sick. you have kids, life

changes and all of a sudden you do have a different set of needs. But now to put those boundaries in place really difficult. I think you you flounder and you feel this need to do more and to prove yourself but I must be able to do this. I must be capable. I've all you know I've heard these things. I've always been capable. What's happened to me now? I've become stupid. I've become less capable. I've become stressed overwhelmed. This is not me. Of course, it's not you because now you have more layers to your life that you didn't have before. And I think that's probably the

the single biggest thing that a lot of us learn in hindsight is with whatever we set up in our future, we need to make sure those boundaries are clear up front. Yeah, I love that. What would you say to someone that's struggling with that? Because one of the big things is of course that many people feel that if they're constantly available, when they're always on call, when they're, you know, rapid in their responses, they're on top of everything, they know everything that's going on, that that is good leadership. Y right. So, what would you say to someone that is feeling that way, wants to set

more boundaries, but is also afraid that perhaps that is showing as if they're maybe not as motivated anymore or not as committed to their job anymore. I think probably one of the first things that will help overcome the challenge of of creating boundaries is have I created enough leaders in the team that's working with me. Are they confident to perform on their own or am I having to do all the thinking cuz that will definitely be a problem. And so one of the lessons I had to learn was empower people and that my ability to rise will improve when I'm lifting the people around me. So

that becomes your number one focus. And sometimes it can take a bit of a while, but it's an incredible investment. I would do that again every single time is really investing in the right people, watching them grow, watching them perform, and knowing that you can put something in their hands and they'll look after it. I think the next thing is very cultural within the business that you're a part of. Will the business allow you to put those boundaries in place? And I'm going to be really honest to those leaders out there is that from a cultural perspective. Some businesses will be super open having that

discussion with you where you can be vulnerable and talk about the fact that you know this needs to happen. Some businesses aren't built that way though. Some businesses actually do expect the team to die for the business and will even use that language or they will use the language of we're a family which is really lovely but it can be quite problematic trying to put boundaries in place cuz with family you're supposed to live and die and breathe for one another. With family it is unconditional love and unconditional forgiveness. And so boundaries are very different with family. I think we have to be quite careful

culturally from from that perspective. Some businesses culturally are not ready to make that step forward because they love this hero worship environment where there is a lot of firefighting and drama and it makes them feel like they're getting things done and that they're fighting the good fight so long as they have all of these dramatic elements around them. So for me, I'm data le person so I like to work with data models and predict what's going to happen in the business and how we can make adjustments. There's a lot of people who don't work that way. They literally live in the moment. And from a

cultural perspective, if you can't change that in the business, I would say you have to make the hard decision of probably moving on. And and no one wants to talk about that, right? It almost feels like you're being disloyal. Actually, the most important thing that you can do for yourself is to honor and respect yourself. And that is probably the biggest lesson I've learned in the last 6 months is that whenever I heard self- loveve, I was like, "Oh my word, that just sounds insane. Please go away. I don't like hearing that nonsense. Yeah, it just sounds weird. But I realized that self- loveve actually

comes from a place of self-respect and honoring yourself. And that is in the language you use to yourself and the way you talk about yourself, the things that you say in your mind, the the kind of language and conversations you surround yourself with and then that will really make you look at your relationships. So yes, I think it's it's in-depth and yet it is so simple. Yeah, it's I think it's super straightforward, right? your priority. It's simple, not easy. That's kind of what I'm trying to say. It your first priority has to be yourself. And it's all about self-respect first, right? And I think one

of the difficulties though is that it slowly slips in, right? And it's slow. Oh, there's just this one more thing that I need to do today or this week, but next week it'll be better or after this quarter it will be better or once we've got, you know, once I once the L tip is in, whatever the bonus comes in, I'll calm down. Right? So it's like quicksand very often. So how you know like what could we do to help people recognize that they're in that rather than you know having to wait all the way until they're burnt out or you know dying to then

take action. Yeah. I think this is where it comes to you need to have a mentor. a mentor who can be really honest with you and who will be honest with you. I think people under rate mentorship and coaching and I think it is something that we have to invest in whether it's a relationship or something that you're paying for it is very very important and then belonging to a community of people that you can have these conversations with. I think very much what you're doing is exactly what leaders need to be investing in. It's exactly that. It's about having that onetoone but then also

having the community. Okay, cool. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. It's difficult. I always say a brain surgeon doesn't operate on their own head either, right? It's very difficult to see what's going on when you're inside that situation. So, I think that's that's totally true. One of the things I always find super interesting is uh with people that progress quickly through their careers, which happens a lot in in gaming like it has to you. One of the big challenges of course is that you know the people that were your mates right that you were in the that you were having drinks with

in your team now become your employees or your team right and suddenly you're their boss and they were people that you know you were out with before like how did you what were some of the changes in relationships that you had to make and how did that affect you? I think at the beginning it does affect you because you wanted to be accepted and you you want to still have those relationships. I wouldn't say you want to be liked but you still want to maintain those relationships and it really does come down to each relationship. I think for the most part I was incredibly lucky

and I'd also work very hard with my team members to create an environment whereby we we knew what the boundaries were and I think that was the most important thing is I had to set boundaries with them first and I said guys let's set the boundaries first let's set the rules for engagement first and then we can continue defining what our relationship looks like but I find too often it's very natural for human beings they want to be liked so they try to build a relationship ship first and set boundaries afterwards and you can't do that. Your team needs to not this is the strategy, this

is what the business is aiming for. These are our policies. This is the the value system we stand for. And once you've gotten that right, then yes, I I think you can continue to build a relationship with those people. You might find that with certain people, you're still there for them, but maybe you you're not visiting their homes anymore. But you need to have a transparent conversation about that and why are you doing that because you now have to think about the fairness for everybody involved and acknowledge that as a human being you will always give some preference to your family or your friends and

so the relationship needs to change for everyone and so I think those were interesting conversations but people were really good about it. Yes, you will get a handful of people who might have been in the business longer than you who might feel that they're more deserving of it, but they didn't follow the same pathway to get themselves there. They feel like maybe it should have been given to them because of their loyalty. And those are going to be the hardest relationships. Those are the ones where I think you do need to have a little bit of a thick skin and understand that they are not

going to like you anymore. They might actually have a problem with you now. And what are you looking for? Do you need people to be nice to you or do you need them to execute the strategy and do that politely? Then you move on and you just have to accept that that relationship won't be the same again. And and I'll be honest, I did have that handful of people who pulled away. And it does hurts at first cuz you're human, but you do understand that that is just part of the journey. Love that, Nikita. I mean one of the big things of course there is

that you know it's great when times are good but times will not always be good right there will have to be difficult conversations and those conversations are very very difficult when somebody is so close to you that you are not perceived or not acting as their boss. I think that's the that's the hardest bit. I had a I had a suitability call with somebody that wanted to join our mastermind CEO um last week and and he had this great expression that said where he said the higher you go the thinner the air gets and I think that's so true right you we feel very also

a human need like you said is of course to be part of a tribe to be recognized and to be with others where you can share and I think as a as a CEO that's very difficult right that's it's difficult your partner doesn't want to hear it anymore because you talk about business all the time your your friends don't understand and don't understand they they're not in the same business, not in the same role and you can't tell your team because they would freak out. Yes. So, how did that go for you? And what was a moment where you felt, you know, you realized that

you'd become isolated even with within your own success story? I would say this that yes, you can build a tribe and I did do that. I created an advisory board of people who would keep me honest and who I could be really transparent with in terms of what I was seeing in the business or experiencing with the team. But ultimately it is still lonely because there are decisions that you'll have to make often on your own because others are not ready to make those decisions or they seem too tough but they need to happen nonetheless. And then there's certain things that you don't want to

say only you can execute but that is the reality. there are certain things for you know privacy reasons or confidentiality or it's at a a level of the business where you're the key individual and so it's required of you to be the one to execute it or have that conversation and I think you just have to get accustomed to that and get comfortable with being uncomfortable and I think that is probably the most important thing and I actually found I used to set like a little task for myself every day that every day I must do one thing that I really hate that makes me

really uncomfortable. And I I had to do that every day to condition my brain to accept that when I'm faced with stress, fight or flight is not an option, right? It really is about that. You know, there's I know there's a couple of different quotes for it, but you know, in Africa, we've got one, are you the lion or you the implorer? Yeah. Which one are you? And so I had to actually very much in in a self-aware perspective condition my brain to be uncomfortable is okay. Fear is good. Fear is just a trigger warning system. It's telling you something's not right here. How you

deal with the fear is a completely different thing. And so you have to decide that I'm going to respond to fear and I'm not going to react to it. But it's tough. It is really tough trying to condition yourself because your first instinct is I just put it off. I'm not going to do this thing today. But I would find something whether it was personal or at work but I would have to do at least one thing every day that only super uncomfortable. What a great approach Nikita. It's I love that because you know that fear is just your comfort zone pushing back right and

we all know that in our comfort zone all of our dreams go to die. So it's I think that just pushing out of that is like a really really great approach. That's trajectory. I want to talk a little bit more about kind of the sacrifices perhaps that you had to make. you spoke about it a little bit but from the outside your trajectory looks like a perfect success story right consistent promotions expanding responsibilities ultimately becoming that group CEO and now recently co-founding your business and we'll talk about that change in a bit as well but what were some of the like maybe the internal costs

that you had of that climb you know that nobody saw that maybe you're happy to talk about now that at the time perhaps people felt didn't even see you know I've always been cautious speaking about the specific one but I'm going to speak about it and there was a a small circle of people who were involved in you and I think the the biggest sacrifice was health there were two aspects of my health that was majorly sacrificed and basically between the ages of 27 28ish to 35 I had 19 pregnancies only a few children um physically there's nothing wrong with me it was stress induced

because I was on this trajectory, right? I was traveling. I mean was with the pregnancy with with my daughter. I think I did four work trips, one being two weeks and I had hypermesis provadium. So any woman who hears that will know how absolutely sick you are. So so I think that is that is definitely huge sacrifice. Huge huge sacrifice. I don't want to say oh if I look back would I do the same thing that's not even an option to dis to discuss it that way because for me life is about moving forward and not about living in the past and thinking how I

could have fixed it. I think the second one was having an autoimmune disease that will probably never have a cure that requires you to be on clinical trials and back and forth to hospital. And I think that was really challenging going to the hospital, being plugged up to all these drips, but you're still sitting on your phone, sending Skype messages, answering emails, and pretending as if this is not happening because you don't want people to think less of you. You don't want people to know that you you have to go for these treatments and you have to wait for all these doctor updates because then

it means that you're not as capable or as available as someone who doesn't have to make these regular trips to the hospital. I think that there's that fear in our industry. You know, no one to, you know, talk about it or think about it. And I think those were the were the two real big sacrifices, but it affected physical health and it affected mental health because you can't be at your strongest if if and again that's what came back and resonated very much with me about selfrespect. I had to respect myself and realized that actually I love what I do. I love this industry. I

mean I actually came into the gaming industry because I love gaming products. I am an absolute natter for pretty much any type of gaming product. It doesn't matter whether it's a Tamagotchi or, you know, the 1990s Aliens arcade game or the the latest on what they've got on Xbox or PlayStation or gambling. It it really doesn't matter. I just I love all forms of of gaming products. So, but I think yes, it that's where I had to start making some some big changes recently because prioritizing my health is definitely number one. But you know the interesting thing is though is that over the last six

months as I prospected my health more as I prospected myself more I find that my pathway to getting better significantly and I go to hospital significantly less now. Isn't that crazy? I'm so sorry to hear all of that and thank you for for sharing it. That's I can't even imagine how tough that must have been and how how difficult you must have had it because it's al these are the fights that you fight alone right in your own head. I mean you've got your partner of course but you're fighting those fights and we had a coaching call and we we you you mentioned servant leadership

as well. you mentioned it before this call and I want to talk a little bit more about that because it's something definitely that other people have as well that mindset and there's not not anything wrong with that mindset necessarily but it certainly has challenges right and it certainly has like it can end up in murky waters so talk a little bit about that how that's shown showed up for you and how that's affected you and what you've learned from actually being in that mindset and and working with that sure so the one thing I can say is that servant Leadership is something that is ingrained

into me since I was a kid. So, growing up, the matriarch of our family was my grandmother. She was born in 1930. She was a very very strong woman, but everything is about serving the family and serving the the the greater good. So, for her, if you had to lose a few things on the side, but you could keep the family together or you could make sure the whole family successful, that was really important. So I took that into leadership with me and it's a part of myself that I actually really love and find annoying in the same time because there are so many of

leadership and that comes to you know coaching and mentoring my team making sure they can be the strongest leaders. I want them to be even better than me. I want them to outshine me because it's just testimony to a great journey. You want to see the company thrive and grow and you actually come across as as very courageous because you have to be with servant leadership. Servant leadership isn't about doing what everyone says. It's actually about being courageous for the whole because that's focus. So I think there's a lot of good that comes with it. However, the biggest area where I struggled with with servant

leadership was that because you're constantly in service, you don't think of ever saying no. You don't think of like pausing the bus just to, you know, review. Let's just check are we headed in the right direction? And I think at times people just get used to the idea that if there's a problem, this person will step in and do the firefighting. this personal it it doesn't matter what happens and that is part of being in service to others you know you you form that mentality of you know no project is left behind no man is left behind you are constantly trying to kind of spread

your arms longer and longer to hold on to everything but that's not always possible and so I think sometimes servant leadership can make us you know it makes us kind of underestimate how much is needed and potentially overestimate how far we can stretch to. And even though we'll stretch all the way there, you start losing bigger and bigger things along the way that don't make sense anymore with with what you're trying to do. And so it's not about senseing your strategy because servant leadership is all about that. I mean, hey, you're so invested in the strategy. It's fantastic, but you're not senseing yourself. Yeah. Yeah. That's

such a great point. It's not sensitive. Checking yourself I think is is one of the biggest difficulties. Again, you know, especially when everything seems urgent and it's just just for a little bit longer and then it'll be okay. And one of one of the things that you've mentioned is that you've had a a mentor that kept you in check, you know, just to, you know, that you had that you spoke with regularly. You said she helps you get rid of, you know, specific stories that you're telling yourself during, you know, whenever that comes up. And Daniel Beard a few weeks ago spoke about this in

the podcast as well that it's all about the stories that we tell ourselves, right? It's the stories that we tell ourselves that hold us back from, you know, achieving the the results that we want. So when was it that you first realized that you needed somebody to hold that mirror up for you? I would say that it was shortly after taking a very big leadership role. So when I became the the head of gaming, it was everything operationally, commercially, I even took over the data team because it became a thing of like, okay, well, you know, you're really strong commercially, marketing and and CRM. How

about you take all the ops stuff cuz ops tends to service CRM, but hang on a second, you've also got a a background in applied business statistics. So why don't you take the data team because you'll actually understand what they're talking about, right? This is what happens. So before we ask you, you all of a sudden become the go-to for everything. Yeah. And it was really in that moment all of a sudden you've got 11 department reporting in to you. The team is over 120. So you've gone from having a sevenman team to having 120 plus man team very very suddenly. I mean that all

happened over a 3 month period. And so you in that moment definitely for me it was like I need someone that I can speak to. And it actually happened quite organically. this director had given me feedback on on a topic and I thought wow that's really refreshing was so direct and she was absolutely pivotal in my trajectory but also getting me to the point where I am now. I don't ever think that I would have been as self-aware as I am now if it wasn't for her feedback especially around the stories we we tell ourselves. Yeah, I love that. I want to talk a little

bit about being the UK ambass ambassador for women and gam in Africa. I know uh Lois quite well, founded the organization, but you know after years of being the group CEO, you now started doing mentorship as well, right? So tell me a little bit more about that. About to start it. Okay. So tell me a little bit more about why that matters so much for you that organization and what you're doing there and how you're contributing. Yeah, I mean Lois is absolutely amazing. she founded the group, you know, I think it's been on her mind for a very long time. And I think it was

I think I've just noticed the the ice I think it was the last ice we had in the UK, the one just before that. It's kind of got out of our mind now, but um myself and Lois and a few other people were just having a conversation about what it's like for women in I gaming and what it's like specifically for women in Africa in I gaming. So we've seen that women in Africa have had more opportunities now to get leadership positions, but back in the day it wasn't like that. It was usually the European teams or your American team members had the leadership positions

and the team, you know, wherever they were typically back then it was South Africa would be reporting into these line managers. But there were times when we were more experienced, we understood the business more. We were more qualified. But we just had to report into people who were outside of Africa cuz the view was the gaming industry was more mature and these guys would be better line managers and know what they're doing. And it's not an anti-Europe or anti-America, you know, kind of thing I'm trying to project here. But it's more about the fact that women in Africa are already struggling with cultural context. The

cultural context is you are not worthy to do these kind of jobs. You need to be prioritizing the home. So you need to take jobs that don't expect much of you because you your main area of contribution is in the home. And yet for many of us it isn't that way because as we grew up and we ended up in households which were run by women, we had to increase our earning potential. We had to focus on careers so that we could facilitate our families in the way that they needed to. And so I was quite passionate about that in terms of the the the

socioeconomic challenges that are faced in South Africa and all over Africa and the fact that you know I'm mixed race and I I grew up in what is called the colored community of South Africa and we are very proud of who we are. We are a community of multi-ra multicultural families. you can pretty much find almost every religion and and culture in most colored families because that's just the the way it's developed as people moved into South Africa. You know, you you had like these specific groupings. But growing up in the colored community, I grew up with certain cultural context that women never look for

careers. That's just not the way it's meant to be. But as time went on, we started changing. And I think very crucially what Lois is doing is she's shining a light on these brilliant women in the Africa eye gaming space whether they are still in Africa or not. She is trying to facilitate the fact that we mentor one another and give back to one another because she knows that it's a deep desire for many of us to give back to counsel someone on their career to spend time just seeing them grow. Funny enough, I was at a an event last week and I happened to

be speaking to a a fellow African woman and that's exactly what she needed was, well, what's my next step? What should I be doing? This is the kind of environment I'm in. What's next for me? But just for someone to say to her, but you are a brilliant leader. You are so fantastic at what you do. You are so respected in in your country for your knowledge. And you could take that anywhere in the world. And you could see her eyes brighten up and and think to herself, "Yes, I am this." But again, she spoke about breaking out of that mold where you expected to

run a household and you expected to cook for your husband and and pass these challenges and tests to show that you're worth being married, you know. So, and the fact that it's still alive today, that these cultural concepts are still alive today for women who are under 30 years old, for women who are under 40 years old. And if you think about that, it's pretty crazy. You would think that would even be a talking topic and yet it is. Is your pot of food good enough? Okay. Well, then you're good enough to be married and alive, you know. So, I think from that perspective, Laros

is doing something really magical and I think we we're all going to benefit from that shining a on these people. Yeah. I love it. And I love that you're being part of that that you're progressing things and it's so rewarding as well, isn't it? when you are actually in a position where you're able to help someone see that they can't see for themselves yet empowering others I think is the best thing you can do so thank you for sharing that the next thing I want to talk about Nikita is your move to co-founding your own business with strata edge uh after five years of older

than five years of building building teams and growing successfully in your career you made the decision to start for yourself right and that's difficult that's a difficult jump. I I remember it very well resigning. It was one of the It's It's actually probably the hardest thing I've ever done because it's so identity based. Like, how did that go for you? What were some of the things that went through your mind and some of the the worries and concerns and like talk me through that moment where you decided to leave and then f start your own business? So I would say the the need to to

leave was very much instigated by the fact that I needed to look after my health that I you know you I think everyone gets to a point in their career where you outgrow certain facets of the role that you're fulfilling and you need something bigger. Yep. and you need something different where you know I think potentially where you can lead a concept that you're very passionate about. So for me obviously yes there was health yes there was a whole passion discussion as well. What am I most passionate about? And I've got a growth mindset. I want to grow things. I I want to see things

bloom. So making that decision was actually really hard because now I was leaving people that I'd been working with for you know anywhere to 10 to 17 years and we had formed very close bonds and you are 100% right when you talk about it's identity based who am I when I leave and I think I actually had that conversation with you because I didn't know who the hell I was. Yeah, once I'd leave because to to me I was the company. I was the job. I wasn't I wasn't even so much my title. I was the company. I I saw myself as part of this

hive mind, you know. It made me think very much of a Star Trek and the Borg cutus. I like it. You know, so you you think to yourself, well, what am I when when I leave this? And you have so many worries, you know, how will the team function, how will everyone else feel, how will it go and so there's a lot to work through from that perspective and it I think it took me a good couple of weeks to work through that and I still had my mentor speaking to me and I actually got some really good advice from you and and I actually

did all of the exercises that you told me to do and it does help just writing it down. You have to purge it, right? You have to write it down and work through it. And once I left, I thought to myself, I'm going to do myself a massive favor. Something that I've I've not done. I'm going to take a nice long break. I'm going to take a nice long break and look after myself and and and just live my life. But the interesting thing is the industry never lets you really escape. You know, before you know it, you know, people are contacting you going, well, you

know, you have a bit of time on your hands. Could you just like advise on this? Could you put me in touch with that person? And you know, before you know it, you've you've got like this little side hustle forming. And I didn't want it to be a side hustle because I've never been that way. For me, you do it right or you don't do it. And and right has got different definitions. It doesn't mean it has to be this long protracted story. But you you either do something with pride or you just don't touch it. And so I thought to myself, what am I

most passionate about? What I'm actually passionate about is facilitation. I love bringing people together. I love bringing concepts together and I would like to help the industry because and and I am going to say the industry because it it happens more often than it doesn't happen and that is just burning massive amounts of money testing new markets before understanding what you're stepping into. We hear this all the time. Oh, X group is left, they spend 600 million on the market. you know, ex group has left. They spend one and a half million on the market. And I think there are ways of I wouldn't say

avoiding that, but probably making better decisions leading up to new market entry or pivoting your business in a specific direction. And that comes around with having people that are solid performers when it comes to market research and getting verifiable good information about what will it cost to obtain this license or the the cost of a player because you hear the variations all the time. You know, oh well, you know, I'm paying $1,000 for a player, but someone else is paying a h 100red bucks for a player and you can't understand how they got that good deal. And so I think from that perspective, Strat Edge

is going to be quite different in the industry bet from from typical consultancies because we we looking at it from a different direction and that is how do we facilitate and how do we empower the companies that we're working with so that they can do their absolute best in whatever market they decide to change into. Yeah. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. And I love the fact that it's so connected to the thing that you're so passionate about which is data. And I think that's that's that's amazing. It's like one of the things that is probably hardest in I certainly found hardest in leaving my

uh my directorship is like how it affects the team and how to have that conversation. You feel like you're leaving them to sink almost, right? Because you you've been there both for a long time. And how did that conversation go for you in your head, but also like in real life with them? How did that those two conversations go? In my head, it was very straightforward, right? Yeah, it makes sense. We all care about each other and it's time for me to move on. Yes. Yeah, it happens very simply in your head. But then you also try and prepare yourself for different scenarios or comments

or concerns and you know what kind of message do you want to leave the team with? And the message I wanted to leave the team with was they had always been exceptional professionals outrageously pushing for whatever was best for the business even if it ruffled feathers because of feathers I've always said if you ruffle someone's feathers it means you're actually doing your job. Yeah, right. Cuz is you you're pushing against the complacency. You're pushing against comfort zone. Of course, you're going to ruffle feathers. But there's a difference between ruffling feathers and and getting into unnecessary arguments, but I wanted to leave them with that. And

I wanted them to remember what they were so strong at doing and that they could do that whether I was around or not. In person, I had to actually break the conversation down into smaller groups. You know, it couldn't be all in one go because there was a B2B game studio, there was B2C casino operations. I work very closely with all the teams and so the the context was different from that perspective and be honest the conversations were a lot harder. Um I think for some teams it was quite smooth. Okay they understood what was happening. They were confident in themselves and they wanted to

understand what the future would look like and give that a chance there. you know there was that and then there were others who you know potentially had worked with me from the very very beginning and for them it was quite uncomfortable you know what would happen now and how would they be able to function and I think in a situation like that you can't comfort them and tell them everything's going to be okay but what you can do is remind them of who they are and what their strengths are and how that carries them in any organization they choose to work for for service. And

and I think that's the most important part is you're taking the spotlight off the company, taking the spotlight off yourself, and just really helping people remember these are your strengths. You can continue to invest those strengths here. Yeah, I love that. Great way of approaching it because you don't have to have all the answers. You actually don't have the answers, right? Because you don't know what the future's going to look like. And so the answer is in their strength. they've been preparing that for that moment their entire career. So really love that approach so far. Uh Nikita about 8 months in. What are some of

the lessons or some of the biggest surprises that entrepreneurship that you know maybe corporate experience didn't prepare you for? Oh, I wouldn't say much. I think the biggest thing has been things I've learned about myself because I never focused on myself. I didn't have time for that. So I would say that it's more about the things that I learned about myself. One of the things is six months ago if you had asked me about starting my own business, I'd have been like, "No, no, not interested. I'm very good. Find me an entrepreneur who doesn't know how to run a business and I can make that

work." And I'm not even saying that I'm against that. You know, part of the the working model of Strat Edge is to allow for us to be deployed for two to three years in specific companies, helping them grow, helping them do what they need to do. So, I think that that will always be, you know, because my we talk about it all the time and I say it to, you know, if a really exciting opportunity comes up, jump onto it. The consultancy isn't going to close. There's a lot of people involved in this consultancy. there's a lot of people interested in being involved in this

consultancy. Consultancy won't go anywhere because it's it's got a life of its own now. Seriously, it has a life of its own. It's very interesting. But I think that's probably the biggest lesson that I learned for myself is that actually I can start something and I can watch it grow and just the amount of interest that we've already had in the consultancy has been absolutely amazing. But in terms of like from a business perspective, did have I learned anything? No. Because I've had to do a lot of this stuff before coming, you know, from where I had, you know, putting an entity together, making sure

you've got the right banking, speaking to potential clients and just making sure that the the message of the business is understood by the industry and what you're trying to achieve. So I think from that perspective it's it's almost been like putting on an old pair of comfortable shoes and but you just I think there are things that you learn about yourself in this journey and I I must say like the the partnership that I have cuz there are two other partners in the business but with with the partnership it's quite interesting how we give so much to each other to because we've learned lessons along

our various careers. And so our ability to care for one another, to treat each other like human beings, I think is so much more advanced. And the way we try to push one another in making achievements that's even outside of the consultancy is something that's really empowering and positive. Yeah, love that Nita. Really cool. Yeah, I wish you all the success for that. It's it's something that you've you know, thank you for sharing all of this. It's something that you thoroughly deserve and I really hope it all goes well. I I my one final question is this. If you could go back to all those

years to when you were head of CRM knowing what you know now about the cost of internal success, right? The cost of that growth that you've gone through and and and the mindset that you had, what would you tell her? I would have said to myself, you know, hit those boundaries early on because it's got nothing to do with your capability because you have a unique insight and a unique way of managing situations that means you will always be needed. And that was something that it took me a long time to get to. It was actually through my mentor. there the stories we tell ourselves, right? So, it

took me a long time to actually realize, hang on a second. I've got all this value to add and and I think when you're overwhelmed, you don't think of that. You don't see what you uniquely bring to a business because at the end of the day, everyone brings something uniquely to a business. It doesn't matter whether they are call center agent or leader or in risk or in CRM. Every single person brings something to the team and to the business. And when you identify their skill set and their talent and you you kind of just bring it together like a puzzle, it's so absolutely incredible. But

while I saw this in others, it took me a long time to see it in myself. And so I probably would have and I would want to you know probably say this to all people in leadership positions or people who are eyeing specific career trajectories is that they need to remember that for themselves is that they've got something very specific that only they offer and it is useful and it carries a lot of value and they don't actually need to prove that they are worth something because they're already worth everything to themselves. Yeah, love it. Love it. Be yourself because everybody else is already taken. My

favorite little quote there. So, hey Nikita, thank you so much for uh for the podcast today. I really loved it and uh thank you for opening up and being so open and honest with your story. Thanks for sharing. Of course, and thank you for having me here. It's been amazing. Thank you for joining me on the i Gaming Leader podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, head over to iamingleer.com for more conversations and insights. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. I'm your host, Leo Judkins, and I hope to see you next week. [Music]

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