Vladimir Malakchi: If you don’t adapt, you die. The Real Value of Leadership with Vladimir Malakchi

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So we moved there on 3rd of September. On 11th of September, this friend stole all my money. Moved to another city just to spend them in two days. And I came to my boss. Sorry, but I need to find another job because here like I will earn one part of my rent. If you check the my CV, you will see that I've already changed like eight industries probably or seven eight industries different. Like my first job in it was happens because I I come to fight face to face with the CEO of that company because he started making the very bad work to me and

I remember we were a client and it was like what what's what's wrong with you bro and then after 2 days he called me like do you want to become a sales manager or what I don't feel comfortable in comfort zone because I'm in business if you're not feeling stress you're not feeling that something changes if you're in this zone for me it's the most dangerous part of your life because after like 20 years pass you will understand it you didn't develop yourself you don't know anything and anything new and you just lost your 20 years welcome to the i gaming leader podcast where we

uncover the human side of some of the most inspirational leaders in our industry I'm your host Leo Judkins and as an ex eye gaming director turned performance coach I've worked with over 200 leaders from companies like Intane 365 five, Flutter and many more to help them build the habits to achieve sustainable high performance. In these episodes, we share exactly what it takes for you to achieve the same. So, with that being said, let's dive in. Hey, welcome back to the I Gaming Leader podcast. Today's guest is somebody whose name comes up very often, not just as a as a sharp investor and former exec, but

really somebody who shows up for for loads of people around him. Vladimir Maxi, welcome to the show. Great to have you here, man. Thank you a lot. It's so honor for me to participate and to speak with you. Not about all of this like marketing as we discuss. It's more like about some interesting stuff. I'm always excited when the interviewer is awesome guy when we going to discuss anything in this world. Thank you for inviting. Really cool to have you here. You know, like where I'd love to start, Vladimir, is I I was asking in my mastermind uh group, who are some of the people

that have inspired you most or that you've either worked with or you've spoken spoken to? And yours was one of the very first names that actually came up. I don't even know if you know, but yours was one of the very first names that came up. And the reason for that was because I I said, "Okay, so why Vladimir?" Well, it's because you're always super helpful to people and you're always somebody that's helping people push people forward and be there for others and and that's really where I'd love to start if that's okay for you. So, you know, you're quite known for inspiring and helping

others. Is that something that has always been the case for you or is that something that's grown over your career? How did that how did that all start? First of all, no probably it's because I'm big fan of receiving uh such feedbacks because this is the big the biggest one I can I can receive when somebody is telling that I'm inspiring and when somebody's writing writing to me that oh super can you mention that's helped to I don't know to write the business or some network it's cool that's why where you feeling that you are doing it the right way it's not like how much

money you earn or something like this of course like it's resources need everybody's looking for this but when a lot of different people whom you really like I don't know seen two three times in the whole life telling you that you're inspiring them it's awesome and how did it come I was lucky enough most part of my ex bosses ex- chiefs they were always about supporting from the beginning like one story which was probably one of the first most rememberful in my life I moved to another city big city very hard city very hard movement a lot like I was 19 years called, you know, nothing

in the head, honestly, and trying to to do something. And I came to the first job and it was a government job and we're working the government job in Ukraine. You can't jump to the higher position, especially if you're like 19 years old. You need to grow and the salaries are very low. So, we moved there on 3rd of September. On 11th of September, uh this friend stole all my money, moved to another city just to spend them in two days. This money was for half a year for you understand that. And I came to my boss. I remind you I working for eight days. He

knows me before because uh he like we have some friends together but he never worked with me. So he just seen what I'm doing and some things had some characteristics about me from my ex bosses but nothing more. So I came to him and tell like bro like sorry but I need to find another job because here like I will earn uh which will be 1/5 part of of my uh rent. So it won't be enough for me. So we need to find something to to work. And this this was the crucial moment of my life when the person who you do don't know at

all. You meet him like five five times in in you know life with some majors. And he told me okay like what happened? I told him what happened. He helped me to find this guy. He helped me to bring him back. He helped me to go to to put him in the jail. He also give me ask me how much money I need for my living. And for half a year until I grow with a normal salary, he gave me this money from a in in an envelope just from him, not not from the salary. I was very grateful. I you can't imagine like I

it's already like 14 years past. I'm still very grateful to the to this person and whatever he ask I will help him and always support him. This was the first case and you know like during all my life I was really lucky to work with people somebody teaching somebody mentoring somebody supporting most part of them after my 19 I had the whole my career I had only really good people even if they were rough or we had some conflicts and so on but it was a job conflict you know when when you shouting one at each other then just because of job question then you're

drinking whiskey because like it's okay job question now we can now we can be Right. So yeah, this is the example I've received. This is what I want people to think about me when we because anyway like you will stop working together. It's normal. Somebody will continue working with somebody will change their career. Some like it's okay. It's it's it's life. But the things they remember about you for me the most important and I want them to give maximum as they can. I want them to see growth because it all I'm seeing some people from from around me whom I worked with before and how

they growing. They becoming public people and becoming very very very expensive top managers with a lot of responsibilities with doing a lot of things with reaching new heights and it's cool probably it's ego I don't know but it's feeling very cool because I I learned it yeah I love that man what a story you know and what I love most about that is is that real conflict right you've got somebody that you've really trusted you've got half a year of money together to to move you forward somebody that you know you've been friends with for a very long time betrays you and then somebody that

you don't really know that you've known for what did you say 8 days actually does the opposite right and is somebody that you can really lean on and um my belief is that all of our biggest growth always happens in our biggest challenges you know it's always our biggest challenges that create the like are also the biggest opportunities you just don't see it when it's when you're right in the middle of it when it just happens right because you feel awful so so tell me a little bit more about that's flooding me. Like in that moment when that guy ran off with your cash and

before you actually had the chat with with your boss, what were some of the things that were going through your mind? Were you more of the mindset of I'm going to give up, I need to go back or were you I'm going to fix this? Like what was your mindset back then? Do you remember? I remember very well. I I I think I remember each day of that of that months because uh I had an idea to return back because when I leave I leave some business be behind because I had a proposition from my ex job to have some part of the equity of

the business because I grow something and so on and I decline it. I don't know like like it was good decision or bad decision for now like every every bad decision for now is recognized as a good because it give you the way the way you know but I've changed the business I fell in some kind of romantic love and I've moved to another city not because of like some business growth or something like this I moved there because huh there is my about the lady so I will live in like I'm 19 years old don't uh don't trust me the issue that when I

moved out my my mom she told me like you're doing mistake you have everything you received a good business opportunity you've made the good good things you have an equity like you are 19 years old so everything awesome let's do it I don't know you don't understand I will I will exit it because for that business I need to be in another place and I don't know I will exit everything because I I I'm sure that it's like good decision so it's now it's uh very modern to tell like oh of course like it's your decision it's your space blah blah blah do whatever you

want that time no what the [ __ ] are you doing I told you like do like this and so on so like imagine two weeks like even not two week one week one week and several days what if I return back what my mom will they will destroy me she will she will remember me each day about what's going on I've told you you lose the business blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I wasn't ready for this it was for me also better to live to somewhere in I don't know I will find some someone who live you know like that time

the very end to return back and to see mom's eyes and to see that she's disappointed because she told you and so on that's was something I won't I won't it will destroy me so no there was no choice I was thinking about finding a daily job with a daily payment I was thinking about like cancelelling the contract trying to receive the deposit back I had some options to communicate so I had I had this variet in my head to find some very very cheap place you know not not the flat but some room and so on. Well, it it was about like circumstances you

need to adapt and this is what what really any founder should do like you need always to adapt because some kind of bad things they will happen all the time. It's no nobody secured even if you have some insurance and say anyway it won't help you in any way it's will take you out from from your normal normal way of thinking and if you are not adopted you'll die. So you need this is this is probably the best skill the founders had. You need to be untapped in very fast because market is growing especially nowadays everything is changing each day no new trends new things

there is Tik Tok trend there is a trend there is Instagram there is books there is business what's going on and you need you need to understand everything because everything in chain everything it depends on on the charment if the world is like driving so fast you must adopt your business and I think this is a very cool skill so yeah this this was the case But I was lucky. Man, I don't I I disagree with you. It's not about luck, right? It's you make it's I I kind of hate the expression you make your own luck, but it a lot of that is in

mindset, right? Isn't is in actually the the steps that you take and the the you know the shame that you feel for having to go back as a failure and and then that creating the fuel for you to take the steps that you that you need to and and that's defined your career, the rest of your career, I'm sure. Right. Like that is that has shaped who you are as a person today. I I I think one time I will write a written book about like changing changing the careers from from step to step because um if if you check the my CV you will

see that usually I've already changed like eight industries probably or seven eight industries different and all the jumps from industry to industry it's much it wasn't like okay you're sitting thinking you know it's some cases happens like my first job in it was happens because I I come to fight face to face with the CEO of that company because he was our contractor and uh we didn't pay in time. was our like not our fault because we are government and government always make some problems with the timings and and he was how he called in that time his and we are too alpha because they

hide only alpha alpha people now never this kind of better or something only like alpha because like trust me that's that sales school it's nothing that you read in the books when I I've read a lot of books in the sales I've read a lot of books about speaking discussions all the psychological stuff but I never read that school of sales that school of sales telling you like when the client is coming to you speaking like how much money you have told you have from the beginning before before selling anything they're like okay I have 5,000 you tell now 5,000 is like you can see

there is some very bad company I want to tell the real world but there is a very bad company in the corner behind Go there. They will make you for 1,000 from your five. Save four. Make this for 1,000. Put three in your market and then you understand that you already screw up and then you will come and put eight eight for us for the beginning. That's that's what the sales this is, right? And this was I like what because before I was learning like you know normal like when you're very polite and so on no aggression nothing nothing and and then like a new

school and yeah because I came to to fight with this guy because he start making the very bad words to me and I remember we were a client and I was like what what's what's what's wrong with you bro and I came to him like and to explain that it's not the case to speak with me like this and also first of all I I'm fighter yourself for the whole life and the second where I work in government structure which has a lot of influence. I told him like you're really in a better position to to argue because you will he will you will lose

it from both sides you know like we discuss we we solve it by the words where I've explained him situation he explained me and then after two days he called me like do you want to become a sales manager or what and I don't nothing I I don't know anything about like it product and so on he told like it doesn't matter we will learn you and in two months I exited the job because there were some changes was in the government so two months I called him and told like your proposition is still is still on the table. So of course come you know

why because he didn't give a salary just commission nice nice start of career yeah so yeah there are a lot of a lot of such such things and stories but in some cases not even the luck what I'm what I'm putting in the terms of luck there are always some options and possibilities around you always doesn't matter what happened in this world there are always the solution you know like how how to like very popular phrase Yeah, when when somebody somebody stay with a gun in your head, it's not about like give you money or just die. There are around 14 40 48 other solutions. You

just need to see them. And this is this is the same. You just need to look. You just need to think what do you what do you prefer? What are you looking exactly for? Because when you start thinking about what you looking for, what do you need? You will start finding because you will start remembering contacts, people, books, information, doesn't matter. You will start remembering because you will start focusing on what what you need, what are you looking for, not on the problem, how you on the solution that you like. For example, I don't know if if the business is crashing, you don't need about

like thinking about okay, it's crashing. You need to think about okay, I want to close it and open a new one. Okay, it's one decision or I want to renew this or I need to solve the problem why it's crashing because of I don't know some market changes and I need to change market doesn't matter but you need to focus on the solution and I'm sure you will find a lot of like you know universe what is more than total yeah universe will give you everything you need and you just need to take it and see it yeah I love it I think one of

the big things is also about increasing your surface area if that makes sense I think it's just you want to be a great person to work with. You know, I'm you're a person that works really hard, that is adaptive, that always is proactive. It increases your surface area for luck, right? And then opportunities happen, but because you've got a big surface area, those opportunities will find you. That's how I see it. I don't know if you feel the same, but I think a lot of it is really in your own control. It's just about like making sure that you spread that spread that as much

as possible. I I think I was speaking about those people who um are reading a lot of books about smart SM RT system or they were like looking for a secret film and then like okay I'm just start thinking about this speak into the universe. Yes guys forget about this. This is important to think what you want because you need to focus your mind on this but never and I've read a lot of all these books and see all these films. It's not giving you an advice to sit on your sofa and waiting when somebody is happened. If you're just saying staying on the place

and you don't do anything you're just thinking the only thing you will receive it's kind of ideas. Of course, you need to learn. You need to start moving, moving, moving, moving, moving. Always, you know, moving with your life. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Um, I had a a podcast interview with uh Sasha who is chief commercial officer at Playtech Live last week and she was talking about how she actually got to that position and she said for me it was just knocking on doors of the sea levels you know it was actually showing that because they don't know like you were saying right if you're

going to sit around and wait they don't know that the things that you know about yourself and the opportunities that you can bring to the business and your skills. So, it's about putting yourself out there. But that's obviously for a lot of people that's sometimes uncomfortable because it's not comfortable, but growth doesn't happen outside of your comfort zone, right? You've got to you've got to get out there. Growth is not comfortable at all. I'm hiring right now a person and I didn't even give her a test test task or something like this because after she told me like how she start uh I gam in

Korea she was she had a dream to start working with I gaming because she didn't she never she never did it before because she has a lot of network around speaking and so on and so like I was interested what the industry is and told was okay what what did you done so okay I asked about some conferences it was ice because you live in Barcelona So like okay I meant to I get uh find the tickets twice from from my friends and so like I I start speaking with people and telling like see this is my CV this is what I can if you

have a job for me just tell me like I will I'm ready to interview anytime it's like I just speak with all the companies that I am looking what I'm looking what I'm running in the f kind of like three four minutes of uh speaking and so on. So like I got just not to seven or eight interviews just just from going around the person who has no experience in a gaming just a cool cool lady with some really very awesome business skills but no experience no network nothing but you know like this kind of confident that she will find something like seven or eight

interviews guys just one day easy that's exactly what I meant right that's increasing your surface area for luck and then opportunities when they appear they will touch your surface area so I love that it's great example I wanted to touch a little bit on kind of what you were saying about founders there Vladimir because one of the big things I suppose that people don't realize when they when they start a business especially when they've been in employment is that actually you need to do everything we're talking about it before as well the light breaks and you still got to you got to fix the light

you know it's not just about sales or about business development or about marketing it's about all of it but the thing I wanted to ask you is about what you were saying earlier one of the most important skill is that you've got to be able to adapt right search for example, is changing. People are no longer googling as much. Everything is an AI, you know, like that massively impacts your business. So, how do you balance the your mind kind of always wanting to change things and seeking new opportunities with also as a founder staying the course and being known for your product or your service

and doing that for long enough to understand whether or not that is going to be a uh a hit in the market? You know, very question. I never think about it how how I'm managing such things first of all I think the the second very important characteristic it doesn't matter your phone or not whether it's just important for for a human being you need to have some kind of self analyzers if you can't self analyze yourself find somebody who will help you to understand who you are and you need to understand that you are not universal person you have a lot of pluses constant pros

and cons and you need to understand what is your pros and cons and there are two ways otherwise you need to make stronger your minuses just work on them in some cases it doesn't work in some cases it better to cover it another way and focus on your strong side it depends in my case I'm coached person honest I'm feeling very comfortable in caros whatever it's happen in the world I'm feeling comfortable in stress whatever as more stress in my job as more stress in my life I'm more focused just more oriented and more productive but it's my life it's not it's it can't be

showing to the people it's kind working with the people because I understand that people need system they need to understand task they need to have deadlines blah blah blah blah blah different people so I know it's my minor so what I'm doing I can rather start fixing it which is impossible for me or I can just find the person who will help me with this this why I always have my assistant so I'm always trying to find assistant and who is very systemized, very structured, who is in control of everything and this is this is my fixing fixing of my mind. So every idea I

have in my mind I'm sending to assistant because she knows that you know I can go somewhere and that's on my exe hotel having a brilliant idea which the whole team should start working on. So I had anything I put it to my assistant when she's structuring the due to priorities due to some stuff what the bics more important what blah blah blah blah blah all this stuff so whatever I have some idea what should I do I'm writing what what what next what I forgot or she's remind me okay you forgot this okay this project is doing this this is KPI for this project

blah blah blah and so on so this is the case you always have solution to to find but to find the solution you need to understand the problem yeah I love that you've got to understand your strengths and your weaknesses and very often I think people like you said people make the mistake of wanting to fix all of their weaknesses whereas actually you can fix them by by getting support in that area and when you focus on your strengths instead they become your super talents you know and I think uh that's such a such a great answer hey if you're a VP a director founder

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iamingleer.com and apply to join. But as we were talking about your example of you know losing that half a year of of of money that you had saved from against from a friend and then having somebody to support you that adaptability is really important but one of the things that I sometimes see with founders is difference between founded businesses and or you know funded businesses versus bootstraps is that there's also a different level of fear I suppose that's driving them right if that makes sense. So very often when you see bootstrap businesses, not a lot of money in that business, you see this fear of

having to go back to employment or something and that drives some insane insane uh performance because there's no safety net. And sometimes we feel that that that we need a safety net to for us to be able to make the decisions that we want. Whereas actually very often the lack of a safety net is the best fuel you can have to drive your performance. Um I don't know if that makes sense but I wanted to ask you what you think about that. I think in some ways you are fearing of boss varants your fear of what what what's going on in future because you have

always this am I doing right you know when I exit play I was probably thinking for about like three or even more months about what did you done you work in a huge comp you build this company everything everything good you have an amazing business partner because this one really like a dream partner partnership. I'm very grateful to Ivan about everything here we have done. It's it relates to what what I'm dreaming for for years and right now you where are you going what what what's going on what what to do next but it's always about the fear from both sides and you are comparing

like when you investing there is a risk analyze you need to find how to cover this risk and you're looking for reward and you're comparing risk to reward if the risk is high reward is high as well if the risk is low they can't be there they can't be high reward I don't I don't trust inside traps anymore. probably like 10 years ago I have trusted now I don't I think it's it's about comparison okay risk is here reward is here what I'm feeling was moving here or there is returning back but the fear is one to three and the reward will be probably yeah

it will be stability it will you will feel comfortable uh you will have no stress and so on because everything will understandable but the fear is to be in this comfort zone for example for me it's hugely incontrover Ever there is a risk of won't succeed. You will lose everything. But if you won't lose everything, the reward is high. And you you also earn the feeling that you've done. You've done it well. You win it. This is this is very important feeling. You were talking about Eva Play, right? You've 25xed revenue there of that. That's what the revenue growth was there. You you know you

own nine markets, oversaw seven departments. So tell me a little bit more about that fear of staying in your comfort zone. Where is that where does that come from? Why are you so fearful of that? And uh what does that look like for you on a day-to-day basis going outside of your comfort zone? What are some of the things that you do to make sure that you that that doesn't happen to you? What is comfort zone for you? What do you feel when you think about comfort zone? What the first words that's coming in mind when you're thinking about comfort zone? Yeah, comfort zone for

me, first word that comes to mind is is laziness. Just standing still. And for me, standing still where the rest of the world is going forward means going backwards. I don't like thinking about the current situation. I like thinking about the trajectory that we're on. So, I'd like to think forward and kind of almost draw a line and go, okay, if this is where I am today and these are the things that have been happening. If I then kind of fast forward two or three years, this is where that's going to end up. And that's where I know usually when I'm in comfort zone, if

I fast forward two or three years, it's not a great place. Yep. So remember this. When you're the smartest guy in the room, you probably need to change the room. And this is this is this is the saying I don't feel comfortable in comfort zone because I'm understanding and probably because I'm working on self analyzis even with more than than I should but I'm thinking a lot about like what's what's going on what you reach what you've done blah blah blah and when you're feeling in that okay you're in comfort zone everything good everything boils forward you don't develop there is no selfdevelopment when you

when you're in sport like my trainer told from my like 14s. If you're not fully sweet after the training, the training was bad. Go for one for one additional hour because it's it meant that you are not training on the level you are evolving. You're training on the level you are normal and not giving you results. And the same in business if you're not feeling stress and know possibly in some ways in life as well. If you're not feeling that something changes, if you're always okay, it's comfort, everything good. Okay, I have some salary or everything good. If you if you're on this zone, for

me, it's the most dangerous part of your life. Because after like 15 years old, I know 20 years pass, you will understand that you didn't develop yourself. You don't know anything, anything new and you just lost your 20 years. It's for me again. It's not for everybody. I don't want to. There are a lot of people who feel comfortable with this and they're lovely and it's okay. I'm not judging them because we're different and it's okay. But for for such people like me, it's not okay. It will kill you. For founders, for people who are like making their businesses, for really ambitious, tire managers, it's

not okay. Never never give yourself an option to stay in comfort zone. I think it's a good example also of an area where you don't build resilience, you know. So if you stay inside of your comfort zone st like stress is inevitable and actually stress is not a bad thing. Stress too because too too little stress means you're bored, right? You feel lethargic. So you need stress in your life. You need pressure in your life to be able to feel motivated. But unmanaged stress is an issue if it's too high. The thing is that you I feel that outside of your comfort zone is where

you build resilience. If you stay inside of your comfort zone for 20 years and something happens, you get made redundant or whatever it is, then how do you deal with that situation? How do you you know what are the I think the your foundations just fall away underneath you and that's I think that's the core issue that you are unable to deal with the inevitable lemons that life is going to give us. It's a kind of trap of our brain you know then the brain is the lazy ass blood of of us it's catching us in let's compare it with the running once you forget

running you didn't run for 2 years for example and you okay in physical form so you're okay to run and then you starting running the first kilometer you know the first feeling that will come you will start having pain you will lose your breathe this is the first step when the brain tell you like stop this I'm tired I am I need my energy for something else I didn't I didn't create what for? But I need it for sure. And when if you start telling your brain that no, it's my energy. I need it now. Just give it to me. The pain will go up. Then

you will you will probably run around 2 km more easily. No problem because you you already like win this. And this is talking about not not about running at the end of the day. It's about everything. How is this like you've seen hundreds of decks, right? And so how do you see this same idea of running being through firsttime founders versus founders that have been around the block for a little bit? What is the what are some of the key characteristics that you see as differences between founders that succeed or founders that you kind of see as a red flag and give you reason to

pause? The first difference between like serial founders and like a new founders is of course confidence. serial founders are much more confident in what they're doing. They already know what they probably done it several times. Whatever question you have, they already have an answer for this and it's not so difficult. Let me give you an example just from from yesterday night. The lady who is helping with this coding like an agent and she has some network around and she she was reaching me about like oh I have a good project. Let's s I sent it into mail. I told like see I I I didn't

see anything in Sarah probably they replied to something or something like this and I told her of course I didn't see because there is no pitch deck and analytic from website and and it's okay if it is SEO project but it's a kind of product products side with some product which I still don't understand what they doing honestly um and it like this is the level of preparing because serial founder will never do it like this they will have unit economy doesn't matter what the product they will already have the projection at least for two three years. They already have a pitch neck. They have

a one pager or even the kind of preparing the memo like a demo version of memo. So you can you can move forward. So you don't need to spend time a lot of them everything they they can done they already prepared for you and they they understand how to how to show themselves because before they call they are training it. If there are especially like two three founders they train it who is speaking for what who is answering which questions and it's very filling and you when you come into such calls you feel interact in the hands of good team because whatever you ask they

they answer you very quickly smoothly the conversations go in the right way from the beginning and this is the difference. So the only thing that you need to do is start thinking like put yourself on the place of investor. Yeah, that's all. It doesn't mean only investor honestly whatever your comment negotiations just put yourself on the place there. It's always what I'm doing when I'm preparing because you know the all all important negotiations I'm preparing in my head like okay I will tell this what the possibilities the person can tell me okay this this what I'm answer this and so so you're playing this roleplay

game with yourself at the beginning it's difficult when you're like a new you need to play with somebody because it's much easier to play roleplay games you need somebody to help you with this but after some same some same time if you're skilled enough and you you really can put yourself, you know, like a like a chess game. I'd imagine perfectionism is something that kills more startups than failure, right? Because people are stuck in their own heads. They overthink. They never make their first sale because the product's not polished enough and so they don't they don't test it in the market. Is that also something

that you see? and and and if so, uh Vladimir, what would you advise to somebody that is maybe very introverted and and continuously overthinks things uh that is in that same situation? I've seen it a lot even in our portfolio. I'm seeing I'm seeing the same situation in some product and we are working with this usually if I'm seeing the situation I'm jumping to the project weekly or even daily basis working with them to over 10 days. What I will advise why did you think that your project needed by somebody? Just ask yourself because you've seen some problem. Did you ask anybody? Do they have

this problem? Usually you're starting from your friends and they're telling like yes yes yes it's all good it's cool because they don't want to harm you but ask them how much money they going to pay for this. If they're telling you 100 bucks okay take take this 100 bucks for them. Huh? So I I can bet that half of their friend that are telling that they are ready to pay 100 bucks for them. They won't give it to you. And even even if they have like thousand they won't give it but because again they don't want to harm you they want to support you because

I'm okay everybody show with it the world is showing that we we need to be supportive even all all the time we need to be supportive I don't I don't trust on it I I'm happy with my friends because if I'm doing some bad stuff they my friends are not afraid of telling me like what the [ __ ] are you doing like forget about this just just throw it bro it's not working so all of these questions this is the most important what you need what need to start Doesn't matter what your product is. Even if it is MVP with some rough stuff, if

you can't sell it, you probably need to find a founder who will sell it. And that's all like this is the first time. It's not about money at the beginning. It's just about understanding that your product is really demandful and somebody wants to pay for it, somebody want to test it, somebody want to spend time working with your product and this is the most important. And also you will receive feedback what is correct what is not correct as a as a marketing and sales you always has fight with the technical guys especially like CTOs that product is the most important product is the most important

I tell you know the problem is that as a sales I can say I can sell anything without you without the product yet then take money and then develop the product in your case if you have a product and you can't sell it that's that's crack so my my advice here to every startup doesn't matter. Collect every contract you have. Alloy approvement signs some money. Sell it a bit cheaper. Give it for trial. Give give advice but not try to make the ideal product. There is no ideal product in this world. It's nothing ideal in this world. Let's look at the mirrors. We're not ideal. Nothing

even even close to ideals. The only matters when the market is telling you that they need it. Not you, not your mom, not your friend and and so on. clients or people who are going to probably somebody of them will be your clients but if they're going to pay them if they're going to pay for this product and they're paying you that's very good signal. I think one of the big things with overthinking is also that you overthink it and overthink it and you spend weeks or months, you know, on some sort of product or service and in the end you deliver it only to

find that when when people start paying that it wasn't perfect and then it was maybe 80% perfect although you spend all that thinking on it and then you've got to go back and actually fix it. Whereas if you did it really quickly and you did it to about 80% perfect you actually have exactly the same result. the difference being you didn't spend weeks or months on it. You know, I think this is such an important lesson that again comes from repetitions. But um yeah, just to kind of underline what you're saying, Vladimir, last one, man. Like one of the big things for you with your

investments and pitch contests that you're doing is really to also leave a leave a lasting impact, right? Like if it would all stop tomorrow, what's the one thing that you want to be remembered for? not as not as an investor but as a person for the people whom I helped to grow in personal and business business life this is this is what I'm doing most part of my life and this is what I'm proud of and all these all these people around is a kind of inner circle in a community of people who trust in who trust in me sometime to give their own faith

and in some cases lives to to give in like under I control in some way of this meeting and I'm happy that I didn't didn't broke it and I just find a way to help them to grow and they had the most important they found these strengths in them to grow really this is this is the only thing I want this world to be to me like remember to remember myself for love it thank you very much flaming it was amazing conversation cut past the the surface and thank you very much for joining us And uh yeah, great chat. Thank you. Thank you. Cheers. Thank

you for joining me on the i Gaming Leader podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, head over to iamingleer.com for more conversations and insights. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. I'm your host, Leo Judkins, and I hope to see you next week. [Music]

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